OK EV I'll engage this thread a bit, but not much longer.
First the claim of "encryption software" is so far fetched it is laughable. At least 4 of the Bishops I know have a hard enough time turning a computer on and off. I just don't see them investing time, energy or money in something like this to keep it off of forums like this. I believe that this type of "information" makes this forum and others like it, feel like they are being noticed more than they are and becoming the "main event". Not to try burst any bubbles out there but I think there are many other items that have captured their attention. Much more important than a forum who's main participates are those who have left their fellowship (right, wrong, or indifferent. Just stating this as a fact not a judgment on anyone)
This type of hype makes those here feel like a "legend in our own minds", larger than life or maybe even "finally we are being heard".
Second, the "top secret information" that is to be read publicly by all clergy in all churches (your words not mine), is also a contradiction in terms is it not? It can't be both. Perhaps you need to go back to your source and request they come up with another story that might be a bit more believable.

EV I am very disappointed in you over the past 2 days. At your request, after berating me, I offered to begin some intelligent debate with you. If this is your definition of it I am afraid we are reading from different dictionaries. :(

truth in mercy

THERE IS AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM THE PC ON THE ICCEC WEBPAGE THIS MORNING!!!!!
It's an Adobe file and unable to be copied.

Please visit www.iccec.org.

Blessings!

PS. The communication indicates the Adler will NOT step down and that there was NO sexual misconduct on the part of any leader in the CEC.

So, this is what we've been waiting for. For those of us who have moved on, it's time to really and truly move on instead of hoping that full disclosure and repentence would happen. For those staying, this makes it very easy to continue on. And for those on the fence...prayer, my friends. Ask for wisdom and discernment to know what is truth.

Brigette,
Can you point me to the exact link on the CEC site? It may be that it is too early in the morning, but I can't seem to find it.

JPJ,
The Wikipedia article is interesting. You may want to save that edition because it is critical at points and will likely be changed soon, especially the line about being kept in the dark.

What I find weird about the entry is that the 1979 BCP's catechism was adopted. I have never been a fan of that catechism, and I have found it to be very weak, and fairly liberal in places.

David

David,

The link...http://www.iccec.org/index1.html

Under "NEWS...

Across from the picture of Adler

An Important Letter to the Communion from the Patriarch's Council

Also, the letter states that they have adopted the 1979 BCP's catechism. The whole thing is weird!

I agree. Their statement that they are supportive of the Continuing Anglican Communion and then adoption of the fluff catechism of the BCP all points back again to an Anglican ethos.

Reading between the lines, it looks like a deal was struck where to avoid shock to the communion and loss of Adler devotees, Adler will take a sabbatical after HOB in October, which will then become permanent. Myers gets what he wants, will therefore stay, but agrees to say no sexual harrasment complaint was ever filed (which I assume in a legalistic way is true, since he probably just orally complained and referenced it in a letter, and there was no lawsuit filed.)

But who will lead the CEC? That will be the big issue.

Hmm, it won't print to my own pdf file and you can't copy it to paste later as you can with some pdfs (at least I can't). Is this some of the secret stuff we are talking about or just me having problems?

David

PS - I "printed" it using MS Image writer, and you can edit and copy in there if you wish to print it out, or print it to a pdf that can be edited and copied. Again, I don't have a home printer and just "print" to pdf files, but I couldn't do much of anything with the pdf posted online.

Same here...You can't even forward the page, only the link.
You CAN retype it and or screen shot it, I suppose.

Well, it looks like EV's information was right after all.

Samwise, why does everyone keep saying that Adler is going to take this secret sabbatical and then not come back? Was this discussed somewhere and certain people are aware of the discussion?

Sam,

Just do what I did. Click print, choose Microsoft Image Writer. It will take a picture of the text. Then edit and copy that. Microsoft has a feature that recognizes text in the image just taken. I don't know how well it works, but it seemed to get all the words for me.

I now have a fully functional pdf version of it. This strikes me as a little odd...placing a document in the public sphere, but making it essentially unavailable for discussion. I can understand the letter has a "context" but the measures seem a little much. We'll see if it deletes itself :)

David

from wikipedia history pages:
account one from CECWATCHER:

The Patriarch's Council met in Malverne, NY September 11-14 and as of this date has not produced any information for the faithful in the CEC other than the rumor that the Patriarch has no plans to resign but may take a "secret" sabbatical. +


ACCOUNT TWO FROM HALD:
The Patriarch's Council met in Malverne, NY September 11-14. They adopted the [[catechism]] of the [[Book of Common Prayer#USA|US 1979 BCP]] The council reaffirmed that the church is fully catholic, fully orthodox, and fully evangelical. They also affirmed the position of the Patriarch, and rejected calls for his resignation. The Patriarch has no plans to resign, but may take a sabbatical at some point in the future, after the crisis has passed.

In addition to being posted on this forum, these two competing accounts have been put in Wikipedia, so that's at least TWO independent sources, the second one of which is Hal Dunstan at Bp Michael Davidson's cathedral church.

Heck I cant even get the thing to open. The error says "unable to Decrypt." Spooky!

ev :blink: :blink:

Thanks, Samwise. Don't know how I missed that :(

I had no problem opening and printing the file. I'm not particularly adept with computers. I had downloaded Adobe 7 last week, but I don't know if that would make a difference. At least we have a statement.

Jules,
I didn't try to print it in the traditional manner, but to a new .pdf file, which is kind of like copying digitally, so that could be the difference. I have a printer at work and may try it if I get time.

And yes, it is good to see a statement. It may not say what everybody here wants it to say, but at least there is one!

David

Okay Friends,

I am amazed at the choice of the '79 Catechism, since no other church on earth has adopted, used, adhered to, or ever defended it. Heidelburg - Westminster - '79 - ?!! :huh:

In the 40's, Holy Cross Publications, along with the Gavin society put out a "Catechism for the Christian Life", which is as catholic as the catholics in ECUSA ever became - articles on Purgatory and all! Hope you can find it, if not let me know.

God is with you beloved - be not afraid.

Homeward

Good Morning All

Bridgette

Not nessasarily. If I am not mistaken the ability to disallow edits has always been available in Adobe Reader. This is not some type of "encryption software" Given the current state of affairs and some wishing ill upon the PC, it is wise so no one can edit/change what they wanted to be said. Also on the web site for all to see is not really "top secret information" is it?

This is all very interesting and it will take a few reads to digest it all, however a lot of the items we were hoping would be addressed appeared as though they were. Could we at least give a little balance and some "props" for some things being handled /admitted /addressed /acknowledged etc.
Unless of course the only intent here is to find the negative and blast away.

(just a little more)
truth in mercy

Perhaps you have been sent a super-duper-secret-virus :ph43r: in order to keep you from reading the super-duper-secret-message B)

(disclaimer; the author of this message knowingly used a purple font to imply a subtle subliminal message)

I am going to start a new thread: discussions on the Patriarch's Council Statement. Check it out

Let's discuss the recent document:

http://www.iccec.org/patriarchscouncil/Sta...Council0906.pdf

Remember, this is a statement, even if it doesn't say everything folks want it to, but at least the CEC leadership did produce a statement.

I don't have access to the Microsoft Image file I created earlier to cut and paste the letter here.

Sooo... what do you think?

God bless,
David

Bridgette,

Print it befor it is gone. I just did.

:D

I just got it to print :P :D :lol: B) :rolleyes: :)

Looks like Bp Myers was able to successfully shoot the rapids between "the rock and the hard place".

Here is the Text of the Statement. Omnipage 15 and an OCR!

ev :blink: :blink:

PATRIARCH'S COUNCIL STATEMENT
SEPTEMBER 2006
MALVERNE, NEW YORK
Greetings in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Patriarch's Council of the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church met at the Cathedral Church of the Intercessor, Malverne, New York, from September 11-14th, 2006.
The Bishops of the Patriarch's Council regret deeply the current "crisis" in the American Church. It was with deep sorrow that we accepted resignations of Bishops Randolph Sly, Philip Zampino, Rick Painter, and Donald Miles. We continue to pray for our brothers that they continue to draw close to our Lord. We further regret the loss of American priests and deacons.
As members of the Patriarch's Council we encourage the American House of Bishops to continue with us in seeking the blessed unity that can come only as we surrender in love to the will of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit. We urge all of our brother Bishops, Priests, and Deacons to continue to be passionate in preaching the Gospel of Salvation in Jesus Christ and to administer His Holy Sacraments.
The Patriarch's Council reaffirmed its commitment to bring the Ancient Faith to searching Evangelicals and Pentecostals, and to bring the power of Pentecost to those in Historic Churches. We are committed to a Church that is fully Charismatic, fully Evangelical and fully Sacramental and Liturgical. We continue to believe in a Church Government that is rooted in Holy Scripture and the Ancient Faith. This government is found in the collegiality and consensus of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons. We reaffirm our commitment to the vision, to each other, and to consensus government.
We believe that the Catholic and Orthodox faith of Holy Scriptures and the Church Fathers, particularly the Patristic Fathers, teaches that the fullness of the church exists in the local congregation gathered together in Baptism and the Holy Eucharist celebrated by a Priest in union with a Bishop in Historic Apostolic Succession. We further affirm that the fullness of the government of the church operates in each diocese and local congregation. Every bishop receives at his consecration the fullness of the episcopacy, as each priest and deacon receives the fullness of his respective sacramental order. Yet, this is not lived out independently of the broader communion of bishops. Our faith is connected not only to that which has been believed for all times and in all places but to the living faith community as we have received it. We live in interdependence.
The International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church is not a "bridge church," and though our heart is towards a visible unity of all churches, we are not on a "journey" towards any other existing expression of the Catholic and Orthodox faith. We
believe that along with our brothers and sisters who adhere to the Ancient Faith of Scripture and Tradition that the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church is a fully Catholic and Orthodox communion. Our apostolic succession is secure and it is valid and verifiable.
We are interested and will pursue ecumenical dialog and relationship at every level. Specifically, we will reach out to our brothers and sisters in Christ in the Catholic and Apostolic National Church and the Continuing Anglican Church.
We reaffirm a strong commitment to theological excellence in our seminary around the world. In our teaching and learning we embrace the riches of the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Churches, the Anglican Church, and the Churches of the Reformation. As bishops we are committed, along with our priests, deacons, and all members of the church, to continuing education and theological discourse.
We rejoice at the excellent work of St. Michael's Seminary around the world. We again reaffirmed our belief that the bishops should take an active role in teaching at a seminary level. Each bishop is responsible for the theological and spiritual formation of the men seeking Holy Orders in his diocese. He is also responsible for the continuing education of his clergy. It will be the responsibility of the Patriarch's Council, along with St. Michael's Seminary and other bishops, to set the standards for theological formation.
We acknowledge that we have made mistakes and errors in government and administration. These mistakes have caused confusion and hurt to many of the clergy in the American Church. We will with God's grace and to the best of our own ability correct these mistakes and errors. We state that the errors and mistakes are not the actions of any one man or one office but rather we share a collective guilt and will collectively in consensus move forward.
We affirm the Office of the Patriarch as "first among equals" and as the visible sign of our unity. This was and is a significant part of the vision of the government of our Church.
We reject the call for the resignation the Most Rev. A. Randolph Adler as the Patriarch of the International Communion of the Charismatic Church.
We state emphatically that there has never been a charge of sexual harassment or sexual misconduct against Bishop Adler or any bishop in the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church.
The concerns raised in the call for Bishop Adler's resignation will be addressed in a pastoral and professional manner.
We continue as the Patriarch's Council to establish a strong administrative infrastructure. Our 2006/7 Budget, which was approved without question, addresses an increase in the area of administration, communication, and strategic planning. We also developed and
will soon implement a comprehensive and international plan for accountability and reporting. We strongly encourage each national jurisdiction to follow the lead of the Patriarch's Council so that accountability exists at all levels of the church.
We reaffirmed out commitment to be an international communion. We added bishops from Brazil, East Africa, and Pakistan to the Patriarch's Council.
We rejoice along with the thirty-one bishops and hundreds of clergy and thousands of laymen and women around the world in our unity given by Christ Jesus. We rejoice at the announcement of two new Bishops in Burundi, of a new Bishop in the Congo, for the election of two new Bishops in Brazil, and for the nomination and pending election of a new Bishop in the United States.
Though the Church in the United States has faced a difficult time there continues to be growth in various parts of the church. There are ordinations, church plants, strong theological education, church growth, and development of various ministries to the poor and broken, along with strong commitment to evangelization.
The Church in Brazil is growing at a rapid rate. The Cathedral has over 7,000 members. Since the consecration of Bishop Paulo Garcia we have established over 24 full communion parish and 11 new missions. We have built a 300-bed conference center for the purpose of discipleship. This center is on 16 acres of land and is able to seat over 2,000 people. The seminary has roughly 140 students and the first graduating class will happen this year. Because of this extensive growth through the power of the Holy Spirit, the Patriarch's Council appointed Bishop Paulo Garcia as the first Primate of Brazil and approved the election of two new Bishops.
The Territory of Asia and the Asia International Mission under the leadership of Bishop Thomas Hines, its Primate, has also experienced phenomenal growth. Several mission works have started in Canada, in various provinces of the Philippines, and throughout Europe. The government of Hong Kong has granted one of our priests official status as a Chaplain of the Hong Kong Prisons. In August the Church began broadcasting a weekly Eucharist in the United States over a Philippine Cable Network. The Mission continues to reach out to various countries in Southeast Asia.
In East Africa we now have over 800 churches. We have works in Kenya, the Sudan, Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, and the Congo all under the care of African bishops. There have been three new bishops consecrated this year and next year two new bishops will be consecrated in Burundi and one in the Congo. We rejoice in the work in East Africa particularly as our clergy, often without basic necessities, bring the Gospel to the poor of the poor, particularly refugees.
The Patriarch's Council adopted the Catechism of the 1979 American Book of Common Prayer as the Catechism of the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church. We also appointed Bishop Kenneth Myers to establish an international group of theologians to develop from this catechism our own catechism that reflects the fullness of
the Ancient Catholic and Orthodox faith, and the Reformation, as it is expressed in our world today. We welcome the full involvement of our brothers and sisters in Africa, Southeast Asia, Europe, Canada, Brazil, and the United States in formulating this important document.
Finally, we once again reaffirm our commitment to the involvement of all members of the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church in the administration of our church. We recognize our need for a good infrastructure, standard operating procedures, and accountability. At all levels we recognize that each member of the church is gifted by the Holy Spirit to build up the Body of Christ.
We will continue to address during the coming months any outstanding international issues. We encourage the American bishops to come to Sherman, Texas in October of this year with the same heart of advancing the Kingdom of Jesus Christ that we experienced during this meeting in New York. We stand together in Christ Jesus.
The Most Rev. A. Randolph Adler The Most Rev. Craig W. Bates The Most Rev. Michael Davidson The Most Rev. Paulo Garcia
The Most Rev. Loren Thomas Hines The Most Rev. Charles Jones
The Most Rev. Douglas Kessler The Most Rev. Kenneth Myers

Not so super duper. Doe this answer anything for those still in the communion? I would like to hearfrom them.

Now that the official statement is released, perhaps there will be more "independent reporting" about this statement by those who are referenced therein.

I feel like this opens the door for Bp. Sly, Zampino and others to explain their resignations, if they wish.

My thoughts on this statement:

- I especially enjoyed how the PC statement referred to the word "crisis" using the quotation marks.

- It's about time that the CEC began talking with other churches. For so long, the communion insisted on isolating itself from the rest of the Body of Christ taking the stance that "they should come to us."

- The non-apology about "mistakes and errors in government and administration." At least they "share a collective guilt and will collectively in consensus move forward." So, whatever that's worth to you if you happen to be one of the wounded ones out there!

- Lots of talk about adopting administrative structure... gee, where have we all heard this before?

- No official mention or followup about +Fick in this statement. I wonder if that was intentional.


Though it's about time the PC broke the silence with a statement like this, it just sounds like all kinds of spin doctoring to me. However, this statement does not drip with overflowing unity talk like the temporary statement that was on the website for just a few days in regards to the resignation of +Fick.

Wow, good for you! I was trying to figure out a way to get this done.

I'm still waiting for this PDF to melt on my desktop... it has been a few seconds since I loaded it!

They pressured him by telling him that if he really did feel like his wife was "sexually harrassed" then they needed to call the police right now. More like bullied him out of his accusation with regard to his wife.

The rock and the hard place might be on the couch where he now sleeping. LOL!

ev :blink: :blink:

Prayers for the weekend to all. And now we have some idea of "what" to pray for within CEC! David Z,.. 4 PANS OF LASAGNE????? Its almost enough to make me drive from Kansas! Enjoy the celebration,.. all of them! I look forward to commentary after everyone has had a chance to digest the statement and decode the secret messages, once you can find them!

Peace

Roy

If some posts got lost in the move to this thread, I apologize. Please repost them

David

As I have looked at this statement I am saying how sad.

No wonder all of us are here in this forum.

Tony :o

Perhaps we can agree that "someone" is being protected by this portion of the information. Given the tone and the verbage it does not have to be a "caving in" of +Meyers nor an alledged "cover-up" of ++ Adler in order for there to be truth here. There are other possiblities but that would be just to compassionate for some here to accept that the PC just might be operating from.

Of course it really depends from which opinion you are reading with.

truth in mercy

Is this "someone" who is being protected supposed to be the woman involved in the situation?

Friends,

For what will the CEC be "reaching out" to the "Catholic and Apostolic National Church", and who are they?

Homeward

Thanks EV for giving us all the text! Now that I've read it, all that I can say is "Boy, oh boy, oh boy!"

Now, let's all sing together (to the tune of Non Nobis Domine):

They're going to do it right this time!
They're going to do it right!
Not even they have ever done it before,
But they're going to do it right!

It's a red letter day for the Ecclesia, you bet'cha, by golly!

;) Chuck Shores

Catholic Apostolic National Church

"Dear Brothers,

Below is the URL for a very important letter from our Bishops concerning the state of the International Communion of the Charismatic Church. The USA has undergone some shifting, changing, and purging, but we will continue to look to our Lord as the author and finisher of our faith. Overseas our growth is phenomenal.

Hold fast to your vows and do not take them lightly. Remain true to your eternal calling and the commitments you have made as unto the Lord. I am encouraged by this letter and encourage you all to read it. It is available for wide dissemination.

Blessings to you all"

http://www.iccec.org/patriarchscouncil/Sta...Council0906.pdf

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I just received this as well as every other member of Clergy in the SEP (that is on the email list). Please pay special attention to the fact the is nothing said to "keep it quiet", "do not copy or post" nor any type of "encryption software" or that this is "top secret information."

But maybe we are only getting bits and pieces while the "big dogs" elsewhere get all the info that EV's source promised.

truth in mercy

TIM, wether or not EV's source info regarding the self-destruct software is viable or not, it would take much longer than a week to implement. The sarcasm is not necessary.

This is quite correct. The PDF seems to have been created with a newer version of Adobe Professional. Upgrade to the most recent version of Adobe Acrobat to View/Print. Note that Acrobat does not allow you to edit PDFs by nature, as it is a viewer only. You would need to purchase Professional to do that... and its likely locked anyway, a feature that allows PDFs to be used for copyrighted documents so that they can not be stolen, directly plajurized, modified, etc.

Here is my "Summary for Dummies" overview of the letter. Feel free to revise it, especially #4. That paragraph needs more clarification than I had.

1. We are sad that we lost four bishops, and we are sorry that we are losing priests and deacons.

2. We ask the HOB to be in unity with us. We want clergy to continue preaching the gospel and administering sacraments with passion.

3. We still believe in convergence and consensus government.

4. Bishops are independent but interdependent. ????

5. The ICCEC is not a bridge and is not on a journey toward the Catholic or Orthodox Churches, but the ICCEC is a fully Catholic and fully Orthodox communion.

6. We will “reach out” to the Catholic and Apostolic National Church and the Continuing Anglican Church.

7. We are still going to have seminary. St. Michael’s is an excellent seminary. Bishops should teach seminary classes.

8. Neither Abp Adler nor the office of Patriarch can be held responsible for the mistakes and errors made in the ICCEC; we are corporately guilty. But we are going to move forward in consensus.

9. The Office of Patriarch will not be abolished.

10. Abp Adler will not resign.

11. There are no charges of sexual harassment or sexual misconduct against Abp Adler.

12. We will address the concerns which led to the request for the resignation of Abp Adler.

13. We are going to establish better administration and spend more money on doing it.

14. We’re going to have a plan for international financial accountability. The national CEC organizations need to do this too.

15. We added international bishops to the Patriarch’s Council.

16. We have unity around the world, and we have some new Bishops.

17. The CEC is growing “in various parts” in the United States, even though we’ve had some problems.

18. The CEC in Brazil is growing a lot, and they have a Primate now.

19. Bishop Hines is the Primate of the Territory of Asia, and they’re growing fast also.

20. In Africa, we have over 800 churches.

21. Our catechism is now the 1979 American Book of Common Prayer., until Bp Myers appoints international theologians to write an ICCEC catechism which will have the “fullness” of Catholic, Orthodox and Reformation faith

22. We are committed to you. We know we need an infrastructure, accountability, and operating procedures.

23. We’re going to continue to address any international issues which haven’t been taken care of here, and we want the Bishops to come to the HOB with the same attitude we had in NY, and we stand together.

This can't be right! Mostly everyone here said we were let by the Prophetic and Apostolic. There must be a typo!

No, no, no. Everyone has told me it is ++Adler and his cronies that run things. How can they say such things???

Plaeeeease! Everyone here knows that the CEC caves to whatever ++Adler says. I am dumbfounded that they would say such things! Plus I thought the CEC didn't have a theology? This is all very confusing!

You mean to say that ++Adler isn't this Supreme Being that makes everyone do what he wants? I thought from what I read here that was the case.

Blog interpretation "People will be told to shut up, bullied and told to mind there own business".

All the monies go to San Clemente for Scotch, Cigars and trips around the world! I think this is what they're saying right? Help me out Bridgette!

Two things appear to be wrong with this. First we do not, will not and can not have a catechism so I don't know what is going on here. Secondly +Myers was to have resigned if ++Adler did not, at least that is what everyone here said.

This is CRAZY TALK. I was told that the CEC is all about ++Adler and his ego!

I thought this meeting was going to be cancelled or moved? Did someone here forget to tell the PC?

2BHim,
You can ease up on the sarcasm please. Your use of "everyone" betrays the variety of views on this forum.

I don't think those who are upset at the things in the CEC are necessarily going to take this letter at its word, and many I am sure aren't convinced. But it is nice to see a letter affirming these things.

And let's not forget too that it is possible, very possible, that the issues raised on this very forum could have helped shape the response of this letter. In fact, the letter does address many complaints that folks on here at least perceived to exist in the CEC. So perhaps some of these problems did exist, do exist, and the CEC leadership has decided to affirm that they are going to do things the right way, without mentioning the specific allegations. I think it is safe to say that even some bishops went in with specific events in mind (that actually happened and are not just figments of this forum's imagination) that this letter addresses. In fact, let's ask this: would this letter have emphasized the things it does had it not been for the online discussions?

But again, I say good for the CEC leaders for releasing this.

David