Apparently, the leadership of the CEC has not learned much from the events of the past 12-18 months. I just received -- unsolicited -- an e-mail from a long-time CEC priest in the Southeast who yesterday announced that he and his congregation were moving from the CEC to the newly formed Communion of Christ the Redeemer (CCR).

Within hours -- literally within hours -- the CEC leader in his state demanded the return of his ordination certificates, denounced him as a vow-breaker, and has already begun efforts to seize his church's property. And this against a man who has served as a priest for more than a decade.

For crying out loud, people, WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED???

WHEN WILL THIS NONSENSE STOP???

What is to be gained by this continued persecution?

When will the current leadership in the CEC realize that they bear enormous responsibility for the events of the last 18 months?

You know, I've heard a lot of talk about "healing" and "moving forward" and even admission of "communication breakdowns", etc. But I don't see the actions suiting the words.

I am re-opening this topic of conversation!

David,

I am sorry to hear this but I am glad this church has gotten out. I will keep praying for all who are still in the CEC.


Lord in your Mercy ...... Hear our Prayer Amen.


Blessing to us all and let's still keep the Healing and Reconcilliation at the for front of our minds today. We all have come a long way....

Blessing to you all

Tony :wub:

Greetings David, et.al.,

In my neck of the woods, many of CEC Churches still practice the "don't ask, don't tell" method of communication. Much of the laity still are completely clueless as to what's gone on in the CEC at large over the past 18 months. Many of the Clergy have succumbed to a bizarre sort of self-imposed brainwashing/whitewashing and have completely separated themselves from the truth.

Healing cannot occur if wounds and sicknesses are not acknowledged.

It's like saying "Well, the Black Death wasn't as bad as everybody makes it out to be...and those who died really brought it upon themselves..."

This latest incident is saddening, but far from surprising.

Sadly,

Kobay

It sickens me, but doesn't surprise me.

Tony said:

Amen.

I also learned today that priests and congregations are continuing to leave the CEC on a weekly basis.

We need to pray especially hard for those who find themselves "on the journey" unexpectedly. The journey process is difficult enough as it is!

David,

You will observe from my previous posts that I am no defender of the CEC. Still, I wonder...

With only the facts that you have posted, I am asking myself- why is it that people who leave the CEC really give a hoot about what their leadership thinks or says? Why do we continually subject ourselves to the ongoing psychological manipulation (read abuse)? Why do we not move on mentally as well as physically/spiritually?

Having said that, why do we insist on contending with them, be it over property, buildings, etc.? If we are leaving, then let us leave. Let us leave our ordinations, our buildings, our assets- in short anything that we have gained when we were with the CEC. If God is leading us out and leading us on then He is more than capable of providing all of the things we need.

I realize that's not going to look (or feel) pretty. But ethically it is the only way to remain above reproach, not in the eyes of the CEC who we are leaving, but in the eyes of our communities who we are trying to reach.

Patrick,

On a certain level, yes, I do agree with you. By the same token, as someone who has now been through this TWICE . . . issues are not quite as simple as they appear.

Where does one draw the line?

David

I am aware of a situation that just happened this Sunday which sounds like the same one you are referring to. If they are in fact the same one, once again there are two-sides to every story.

1) Only the Priest and his family left. His church was unaware of his decision until he announced it at the close of service.
2) If it is the same, how do you seize a rented room at a hotel? "efforts to seize his church's property"

Please see if you can dig a bit deeper for all reading

Thank you

David and company,

Is there any way you could list the name of the church or churches that are leaving or is that still going to hush hush and a secret........

I guess this is the part that I did not like when all of this started coming out over the past 12 - 18 months... Everything was so secretive. I am hoping things can be a bit more out in the open on this next group of people that are leaving....

I will be praying and interceding for all those affected on this next wave of departure.

Lots of love to all

Tony :wub:

PS I don't know what I would have done with out you this past 10 - 11 months for me. Thank You again David and David you all have been very supportive of me and the rest of us who have journeyed onto either EO, RCC, CCR, and CCC.

David,

My knee-jerk, trite (proof-text) response is to say "seventy times seven". But I know what you mean. Issues are complicated. I realize that. Still, in the main I will stick with my original recommendation. I have found by experience that it helps us walk away from the things that are embittering us and move forward to the things God has called us to do.

We may feel that we are completely in the right and that we need to take a stand and fight. But there comes a time when we need to hear the voice of our Lord saying, "Peter, put away your sword!"

Something I have learned through all of this, too...

It is better to fight on our knees than in face-to-face combat.

It seems the process will continue for a long time to come, as more and more people look for a way out of the CEC.

Let us all continue to pray, especially for the newly wounded.

So after a few months of breathing space, there seems to be a "resumption of hostilities"...

The CEC has been beaten to a pulp but it appears that a lot of blood could still be squeezed from it.

What about a discussion on the merits of the founding of the CCR by the former CEC bishops?Do you think the CCR is the CCC as envisioned by KMyersII?

What have we learned so far?

I learned that a man does whatever he likes even though he claims to follow God.

Lord have mercy upon us.

Philip,

Very True

Tony B)

Philip,

Anything positive you'd like to contribute? We'd love to hear it!

As I believe I have stated previously on this forum, I am not interested in re-hashing all our old wounds from the CEC. But the question of this thread is well taken- what have we learned?

I have learned that our Lord was wise enough and strong enough to found an infallible Church called the Catholic Church. I have learned that no matter what better idea someone has, it always boils down to essential Protestantism which is rank individualism (read rebellion). You can have liturgy, sacraments (of a kind), vestments, and the Fathers, but you will still only be imitating the Church, not really being the Church.

I know those are harsh words. They're intended to be. Because Truth matters. And truth is not a matter of opinions. It is Truth because the Lord established it as so.

I have repeatedly raised the issues of ecclesiology and historical theology on this and other CEC related forums and I have yet to have a single soul take me up on it.

Look, you either believe in one God who is all powerful, all wise, and all knowing who has established one infallible Church according to the clear text of Sacred Scripture, or you don't. The former is what all Christians for centuries believed. It is the Catholic Faith. The latter is the premise for all sorts of deceptions and abuse. If we haven't learned that then we haven't learned anything!

Patrick,

Very interesting and good post.

Next question how is everyone doing since becoming Catholic? I personally must admit it is a struggle..... Mike Baldwin says most of the Catholic faith is Ordinary and most of the time with in the Catholic Calendar is Ordinary Time. So I guess I am just feeling ordinary and have no excitment these days. I feel just like I am catholic now what?????????

I am leaving for Rome in 12 days and I am not excited. WHY? I am not sure of that answer. I just know I guess I must in a post pardum type of state since coming Home to Rome........Am I alone in this?....................


Thanks Tony :wub:

Hi Tony,

Mike is right. Being Catholic is, for the most part, quite ordinary. That's the beauty of it. It isn't emotion driven, etc. It simply offers a very real spirituality for living in the real world. But don't worry, that's not to say God still won't show up from time to time to "knock your socks off." He will. I would imagine that you will still be very blessed on your pilgrimage to Rome.

Tony, one thought that comes to mind is that you are suffering emotional withdrawal from your former charismatic/evangelical ethos. Give it time and determine to be consistent in prayer. God will give you Grace and understanding for these times and direction for the future.

Really, Tony, it is completely awesome to finally be home!!! Don't let waning emotions rob you of that fact.

Blessings!

Patrick,

Thanks I hear you loud and clear especially about the withdrawal from the Charimania emotionalism. Thanks for the response......

I guess I will have to live and learn to endure and hopefully the withdrawal symptoms will go away.....Thanks, Tony :wub:

Tony,

I agree with Patrick here. Believe me, after time, the calm will be quite refreshing.

Ordinary Time is extremely important. Indeed, the time between Trinity Sunday and I Advent was CS Lewis's favorite! (He once had a Vicar who suggested that the weeks after Pentecost were the "long run-up to Advent" -- a suggestion that Lewis strongly resisted!)

It's during Ordinary Time when we can concentrate more closely on the movement of the Life of Christ through the Gospels in a way we cannot do during the festal seasons -- and this is necessary and important.

Tony, you will be in my prayers -- and that's no baloney! :D

David,

Thanks that means a lot :P

This has definately ministered to me this morning and I really appreciate all of your support and prayers..... and yes in 12 Days I will be leaving for Italy.....

Lots of love Tony :wub: