Bishop Malcolm was my Bishop and is the one who introduced me to the ICCEC. His divorcing Ginger was tragic and did affect far too many of us. This was his second divorce. Divorce IS a current issue of the ICCEC. He was defrocked, allowed to function as a priest, married in the CEC at the Cathedral, and then left the CEC to join a group called Community of the Holy Spirit. I have forgiven him and my wife keeps a picture of him and I. He is a highly gifted person.

1 Tim. 3

1 This is a faithful saying: if a man seeks the office of an Bishop, he desires a good work.

2 The Bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, modest, hospitable, good at teaching;

3 not a drinker, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;

4 one who rules his own house well, having children in subjection with all reverence;

5 (but if a man doesn't know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the assembly of God?)

6 not a new convert, lest being puffed up he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.

7 Moreover he must have good testimony from those who are outside, to avoid falling into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Consider how far we have wandered:
Pope Leo to Anastasius, Bishop of Thessalonica (AD 461). "And so, dear brother, hold with vigilance the helm entrusted to you, and direct your mind's gaze around on all which you see put in your charge, guarding what will conduce to your reward and resisting those who strive to upset the discipline of the canons. The sanction of God's law must be respected, and the decrees of the canons should be more especially kept. Throughout the provinces committed to thee let such priests be consecrated to the Lord as are commended only by their deserving life and position among the clergy. Permit no licence to personal favour, nor to canvassing, nor to purchased votes. Let the cases of those who are to be ordained be investigated carefully and let them be trained in the discipline of the Church through a considerable period of their life. But if all the requirements of the holy Fathers are found in them, and if they have observed all that we read the blessed Apostle Paul to have enjoined on such, viz., that he be the husband of one wife, and that she was a virgin when he married her, as the authority of God's law requires,[then ordain them7 ]. And this we are extremely anxious should be observed, so as to do away with all place for excuses, lest any one should believe himself able to attain to the priesthood who has taken a wife before he obtained the grace of Christ, and on her decease joinedhimself to another after baptism. Seeing that the former wife cannot be ignored, nor the previous marriage put out of the reckoning, and that he is as much the father of the children whom he begot by that wife before baptism as he is of those whom he is known to have begotten by the second after baptism. For as sins and things which are known to be unlawful are washed away in the font of baptism, so what are allowedor lawful are not done away."

I too know a priest who was a protege of Smith, so I was filled in on his many failings and giftings. That being said, his particular situation really does not affect this current crisis since it happened and was dealt with many years ago (in CEC parlance, 5 years might be construed as "many")- I think at least 9 years ago?? (David can you confirm please?).

Again, in the context of my post and this current crisis, I woudl still say it has no bearing. Divorce has always been a problem, but not one that led to the situation with ++Adler, which is what was the point of my posting.

That being said, please refer to my previous post from the New Advent website regarding the history of celebate clergy for some eye opening history on the subject along with reports of papal decrees REQUIRING divorce. I found it simply fascinating. What I was really trying to do was stay on some topic rather than go off on the rabbit trail of Malcolm Smith which is not current enough to be called an issue in this crisis, although it may have definitely been a precursor.

Simply being divorced prior to ordination does not necessarily mean that the clergy is tainted (many reasons for divorce) and the RC church likes to give special dispensation called "ANNULMENT" which pretends the marriage did not happen thereby allowing them to skirt the issue. (How is that different?? I don't see a difference myself.) So to answer another "Guest", perhaps one of the two divorced clergy was a victim of divorce from his wife, rather than instigating it and perhaps it was a drunken commitment of youth and not sacramental (prior to his ordination or application to Holy Orders), so he may have a stronger comittment to marriage than one who has not been on the recieving end of a divorce. Needless to say, the ones in need of counseling perhaps prejudged the situation and perhaps judged the priest defective without knowing it.

We can all bring something to the table here. For example, some folks who have lost their freedom, cherish it much more than those who have not lost their freedom in their lifetime, whether or not it was lost due to their actions (criminal) or someone else's (totalinarianism/dicatatorship).

Additionally, even the Fathers were not consistent on Paul's teaching of "Husband of one wife." Some saying "no divorce period." Others saying, "once ordained no marriage or remarriage", etc. Some Eventually stipulating to not have more than one wife at ordination and thence afterward remaining with the one wife. Then you get into the history stuff at New Advent and it really muddies the water...

And I agree that divorce itself is an issue in the CEC.

Only my thoughts.

Agreed!!!

Malcolm had issues. No question about it. But he is long gone, and the current crisis has nothing to do with Malcolm's issues.

Issues you raised- if the infidelities of Howard, Moats (both past issues) and Smith are not relevant to the current crisis, what defines what is? Moreover what does Roman Catholic priestly pediophilia and Catholic celibate clergy have to do with the ICCEC directly- both issues you raised. Howbeit, I have said my piece. I am no longer going to defend or defame former Bishops. I just think there are many who feel these were unresolved root issues.

I do agree and perhaps I was joining two threads without realizing it. i was also responding to Guest who made the comment about "...the Catholic church might have gotten it right with celibate priesthood".

Sorry for the confusion.

I agree that perhaps the climate of divorce and remarriage within the clergy ranks is an issue that may bear on the current crisis as a symptom of the serious dysfunction evident in the CEC. It may have indeed been the precursor of the current problems.

I just did not agree that the sins of Malcolm Smith directly affected this current climate or crisis, simply that they too were tjhe result oif the core problem in leadership in the CEC and - even though I did not once again state it (ad nauseum)- may have been caused buy the initial curse laid on the CEC by the hands of Spruit, Barker, et al.

I am really not trying to be obtuse; simply seeing it from a different perspective.

Pax.

I understand. However these issues do need to be addressed for you and many others:

The Catholic Church and the Scandal of Priestly Pediophilia
The Catholic Church and Priestly Celibacy
The Catholic Church and Divorce and Annulments

Does anyone have questions on these?

Just some thoughts for the grist mill:

“Excerpts from”
The 85 canons of apostles




5. No Bishop, Presbyter, or Deacon shall put away his own wife under pretext of reverence. If, however, he put her away, let him be excommunicated,” and if he persist in so doing, let him be deposed from office.
(Canons XIII, XLVIII of 6th; c. IV of Gangra; cc. IV, XXXIII of Carth.).

Interpretation.
The old Law permitted married men to divorce their wives whenever they wanted and without any reasonable occasion. The Lord, however, sternly forbade this in the Gospel. Hence it is that the Apostles, too, following the Lord’s injunction, prohibit this in the present Canon, and say that a bishop, or a presbyter, or a deacon may not put away, i.e., forcibly divorce, his wife — without her consent, that is to say — under pretext or pretense of reverence; but if he should nevertheless divorce her, that he is to be excommunicated, until such time as he can be persuaded to take her back into his home. But if he persist in his obstinacy and will not receive her, he is to be deposed from office altogether, since it is apparent from this which he does that he dishonors marriage, which, according to the Apostle, is honorable (Heb. 13:4), and that he thinks bed and intercourse to be impure, which, however, is called undefiled by the same Apostle (ibid.). I need not state that adultery will operate as cause for divorce in this case, as the Lord said: “Whosoever shall put away his wife, save for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery” (Matt. 5:32). The Apostle, too, has said: “Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be freed” (I Cor. 7:27); and “Deprive ye not one of the other, unless it be by mutual agreement for a time, in order to have leisure for fasting and prayer” (ibid. 5).


Concord.
Thus also the Sixth in its c. XIII ordains that marriages of those in holy orders are to remain unalterable and divorceless; and that if they were married even before admission to holy orders, they are not to be prevented from admission by reason of marriage; nor, when ordained, are they obliged to agree that as soon as they have become priests they will divorce their wives, as was an illegal custom which had come to prevail in Rome. Even if cc. IV and XXXIII of Carthage say for bishops and presbyters and deacons and subdeacons to keep sober and to abstain from their wives according to the same definitions, but the interpreters of the Canons — Zonaras, I mean, and Balsamon, and especially the Sixth in its c. XIII, in interpreting the foregoing Canons — say for them to abstain during the times only of their curacy, and not at all times, with the exception of bishops: and see there.


17. Whoever has entered into two marriages after baptism, or has possessed himself of a concubine, cannot be a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, or anything else in the Sacerdotal List.
(Cf. c. Ill of the 6th; and c. XII of Basil’s.).

Interpretation.

No matter how many sins a man has committed before baptism they cannot prevent him from taking holy orders and joining the clergy, since, and we so believe, Holy Baptism washes them all away. Not so, however, in the matter of sins committed after baptism.

On this account the present Canon ordains that whoever after Holy Baptism marries twice (one marries twice not only by taking a second wife, but also by becoming formally betrothed to another woman by virtue of a religious rite, or even if he weds a woman plighted to another man, or keeps a woman as a concubine, he cannot become a bishop, or a presbyter, or a deacon, or be in anyway placed among the number or in any rank of the Sacerdotal List.


18. No one who has taken a widow, or a divorced woman, or a harlot, or a house maid, or any actress as his wife, may be a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, or hold any other position at all in the Sacerdotal List.
(Cf. cc. II, XXVI of the 6th; and c. XXVII of Basil).

Interpretation.
If the Jews who were priests were forbidden to take as wives any prostitute or woman chased out of house by her husband, or one having a disreputable name of any kind — for it says, “They shall not take a wife that is a whore or profane; neither shall they take a woman cast out by her husband: for he is holy unto his Lord God… And he shall take a wife in her virginity” (Lev. 21:7, 13), how much more is not this forbidden to the priests of the Gospel? For, it says, “Behold, in this place is one who is greater than the temple” (Matt. 12:6). On this account the present Canon ordains that anyone who takes as his wife a widow or a woman who has been chased out of house by her husband, or a whore, or a slave girl, or one of those women who play on the stage or have a role in comedies or play the part of various persons, cannot in any way at all be counted among those on the Sacerdotal List: because all these women have been maligned and given a bad name. Those men who are in holy orders must be irreproachable from all angles, and blameless, as blissful St. Paul says (I Tim. 3:2). Canon III of the Sixth says that presbyters, deacons, and subdeacons who have taken a widow, or who after ordination have fallen into an illegal marriage, if they divorce their wives, may be allowed to remain suspended from priestly orders for a short while and be subjected to penances. Afterwards they may resume their proper rank in holy orders, but may not advance to any higher rank, notwithstanding that the Sixth accomodatively provided a compromise for such clergymen at that time: thenceforth, however, it prescribed that the present Apostolical was again to be in full force and effect.


Enjoy,
Fr. Rusty

Fr Rusty,
It is difficult to understand your points. Where are you talking and where are you quoting another source? Please clarify?
Respectfully,
Ken

Pope Benedict clamps down on "erroneous" annulments

http://www.cathnews.com/news/701/155.php

Dear Ken:

The Orthodox use what is called “The Rudder” for Cannon Law, of which, the 85 Apostolic Cannons are a part of.
Basically it consists of the 85 Canons (which I quoted some of) and the decrees of the first four Ecumenical Counsels.

These are Authoritative, as far as I know, in Orthodoxy, yet there is room for some interpretation by the local Bishop.
If there are problems, it goes to council.
All the above was from that if my mind serves me well.

Hope this helps.
Rusty+

The 85 Canons of the Holy and Altogether August Apostles, plus the Canons of the First through the Forth Ecumenical Councils Constitute what is known as “The Rudder”

http://www.3saints.com/canons.html

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03279a.htm

The Problem with Orthodoxy is there isn't a final answer and one overseer over the Entire Orthodox Church which the RC Church has which is the Pope.


The RC has a stronger stance on Marriage as well the other Sacraments... :unsure:

Just my thoughts and opinion. :)

Bleesings to you Fr. Rusty in your journey....

Tony aka: The Baloney Man

There should be no divorce at all, regardless. :D

Dear Tony: I "think" the Cannons above pre-date the Great Schism.
I know the things from the counsels certainly do.

Agreed on the headship issues.
Rusty+