I can't see how the Latin Rite Church can reconcile with both the Eastern Churches and the reformation. If bible Christians believe that Roman Catholics practice idolatry can you imagine what they will say of the eastern rites? Much of what I have read (which is admittedly limited) the east considers the protestant teachings a great hearsay.

Well, I do have hope for a reunion between us and the Orthodox AND us and much of Protestant and Evangelical world. In my life time? Probably not.

I definately think that it is much more likely that the Catholic Church will be a middle ground that could unite both those groups than the Orthodox and Protestants making an end run and uniting with out us.

And that was me in that comment, by the way...forgot to log in. DOH!

Unfortunatley, I don't think that there will probably be a re-union with either the Roman church and especially not the protestant churches with the Orthodox Church (unless either of them become Orthodox :D ). With the RCC there are some things in common but with protestants, there is very little in common.

As an Orthodox myself, I know that the view of the Holy Catholic Orthodox Church is that the church IS the Chruch. We don't believe in a pluralistic form of the church (as we did in the CEC). We believe the Orthodox church to be the visible manifestation of the church here on earth. With that said, we also say that we know where the church is, but we don't know where it is not. And if a person is not Orthodox it doesn't mean that they aren't a christian or going to heaven; also, if a person is Orthodox it doesn't garuntee that a person is going to go to heaven. Only God knows the status of the Heart (nous).

The chances of reconcilliation with Rome are better than they are with the protestants; however, I doubt that there will be reconcilliation with the RC's because too much has happened over the past 1000 years to make it nearly impossible. There are theologically too many differences that can't be resolved. The west would have to give up papal infalibility, universal jusrisdiction of the pope of rome, remove the filioque from the creed, give up the doctrine of original sin, and altar their doctrine of purgatory just to name a few.

As pessimistic as I am of a reunion with Rome happening, I still pray for it. God can do whatever He wants. Lord have mercy on us all!!!!!


Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal Have Mercy on us
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal Have Mercy on us
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal Have Mercy on us
Glory to The Father, and to The Son, and to The Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen

-Jake

Do you see Orthodox as The Church verse Rome bein The Church? I for one will stay with Rome and my western world view culture. I can't give up my Western Hymns and music. As you know it is HOME TO ROME for me :D ;)

I guess I see Rome as being it for me. We are all on a journey so each to his own and blessing on you in your journey! :) :P

I do believe that the Orthodox church is in fact the new testament church; the church which was established by Jesus Christ and the Holy Apostles. Before I became Orthodox, I was part of the CEC for many years, and I was raised evangelical before that.

Becoming Orthodox was a heart felt decision for me. We are all on the journey, and I don't judge anyone. We all have to do what our hearts and concious tell us to do.

I left the CEC before any of the scandals broke out. It was truly for theological reasons that I left the CEC. I became convinced that the Orthodox church was the true church. I attended both Roman Catholic churches and Orthodox churches for a while before deciding whether to become Orthodox.

Let me paste something about why I became Orthodox from another one of my posts---

"Hi Folks,

I appreciate your warm welcoms. I haven't been able to post this last week because I have been so busy.

I don't have time to get into the point by point rebuttals right now (not that those kind of debates really make much of a differance to most people anyway).

I want to share a little bit more about my conversion to the Holy Orthodox Church.

As I stated in my prior post, I had a very positive experience in the CEC, and it was very difficult for me to leave, but I had to do what I believed to be right. As good as the CEC was, I became very skeptical about the CEC's apostolic succession; ultimatley concluding that it derived from a schismatic group and just created another denomination. Archbishop Adler was my bishop, and I loved his preaching. I probably enjoyed listening to his preaching better than anyone; however, I started to come to the conclusion that the CEC was driven by his personality, and that once he was gone, I could very well seeing the CEC going down hill.

Towards the end of time in the CEC, I came to the conclusion that the only two churches that could legitimitaly claim to have been there from the begining were the Orthodox church and the Roman church. I had studied a lot about the theology of both the eastern and western churches while being in St. Michael's seminary and on my own, so I was pretty well aquainted with what they both believed, especially as far as books go. (living the life of the church is quite another, but I will get into that later).

Before we left California, we had been attending services in the Catholic churches and in the Orthodox churches in order to get a feel for both of them. Personally for me, the Roman church wasn't resonating with my spirit. Having been used to high masses in the CEC with incense, icons ect.. I felt almost let down every time I went to a Catholic Mass. Almost all of the various parashes that I went to were merely a step up from protestant churches. To me there was almost no sense of majesty and the Holiness of God in these places (now I'm not trying to rile anyone up, I'm just explaining my personal experence, so please, no one take offence). There were no guard rails, no incense, nearly no icons, laymen and women distributing Holy Communion to each other, no wine in the Eucharist, the walls drab and the enviriment pretty drab, ect.......I could go on.

When I would go to the Orthodox churches, it felt like heaven on earth. I remember going to the Russian Orthodox cathedral in San Francisco where the Holy Relics of St. John Maximovich rest, and being in there all by myself. The presence and Holiness of God felt so great that I almost started trembling! At first I felt out of place because it was so different than anything I was used to. The liturgy was different, everything was chanted, ect...Yet it felt right; it felt like home to me.

When I moved to Springfield MO, My wife and I started attending St. Thomas the Apostle Orthodox church (OCA) and immediatley became catechumens. When I first became Orthodox I was still VERY western in my thinking. As Yoda said, I had to "unlearn what I had learned". Orthodox spirituality has radically transformed me in the mere two and a half years that I have been Orthodox.

I feel that Orthodoxy had been a spiritual hospital in which a spiritually sick person like myself is being healed. Before being Orthodox, I didn't really think that I was "that bad". Deep down I felt that I was better than non Christians, and liberals, ect.... I now realise what an intense struggle the Christian life really is, and I feel like I have only scratched the surface in learning humility and love.

Over these few years I have been able to LIVE IN THE LIFE OF THE CHURCH. This is one thing that you can't get out of reading books; it is something that has to be experienced. At first things seem akward and difficult in the church, especially coming from western backgrounds, but once one lives in the life of the church and learns it, it becomes very beautiful.

The spirituality and disciplines are much much different than in the west. I can honestly say that Orthodoxy is the hardest form of Christianity if one is going to take it seriously. It requires one to live a life of repentance, and crushing ones ego. I requires death to one's self which is horribly painful, but it brings about true healing of the soul.

Anyway, I will stop going on. One more thing though, I said in my prior post that the diagnosis and cure of the condition of man is radically different in the Orthodox church than it is in the western churches. This is very true, and it is not a symantical debate. I will post more about this next time.

All that I have explained up here is just my personal experience. Again, I hope that I didn't hurt anyone. If I did please forgive me. I look forward to chating with y'all.

God grant you many years!!!
and for old times sake--Non Nobis Domine!!!"



Tony, I am going to go have a baloney sandwich now

--Jake

OB,

I ask this question because it is my understanding that the filioque is adding the name of Jesus to the (Nicene) creed. If this is a correct assumption on my part,.. are you then saying to be Orthodox you do not believe in that aspect of the creed? Does that then deny in any way Jesus? :huh: My understanding may be wrong but as I am trying to grow in my Faith journey, and I'm in RCIA classes now, I have thought that the RC and orthodox were closer than you have presented. It would make me believe the Anglicans (NOT ECUSA!!) are closer to Rome with the division you have mentioned...

Roy

Jake,

To continue,.. I do understand this portion of your journey, I too love the ritual, smells & bells, etc., but for me that isn't available where I am living. I would prefer more charismatic in the RC Church I am attending, but I know that is in my heart and when I can share that, once folks come to know me & my faith, I will! Let me say that I once found that the beauty of the Epsicopal Church was that I could find everything from the highest of Masses to the most charismatic Spirit filled services available to me when I traveled. And each was beautiful for me because it fulfilled the need I had to be where I could worship Our Lord!

I miss that in the service and frankly was quite surprised at finding much of what you state. I wonder if that is an effort to attract rather than detract newcomers into the church. I was amazed to find that in my church congragents partake of the bread and return to their pew without the wine. I found through study that has been something that changed in the Catholic Mass and many long time Romans still won't adapt to receiving the cup. It seems very strange to me!

Having said that, I must also say that I am having very many beliefs and assumptions about the Catholic Church destroyed through my "schooling". Above all, I find there is so much Love for Our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ. So I am where I need to be right now, as are you. We are both right where He wants us! :rolleyes:

Blessings

Roy

Roy,

I appreciate your kind remarks. Concerning the "filioque" clause that the Romans added to the nicene creed; originally it wasn't there. It was added some time later by the Romans. The Orthodox use the origianl creed. I would point out that one of the major problems with the filioque is that it distorts the point of uinity in the Holy Trinity. It has always been understood in the east that The Father is the point of unity in The Holy Trinity; this is also attested to in ancient iconography. To me, this is just one of the many problems that I found with the RCC (again, I'm not judging anyone, this is my own experience). The Bible itself teaches that the Holy Spirit proceeds from The Father. The parish that I attended in the CEC used the Orthodox version of the Creed, which I always thought was the most accurate. When I first started considering Holy Orthodoxy, I talked to Father Richard Ballew of the Antiochian Orthodox church (he was part of the original evangelical orthodox church that became orthodox), and he said that it was the issue of the Creed which convinced him to become Orthodox.

From my experience, it seems to me that Rome keeps changing; Orthodoxy doesn't change. It is conservative. It always makes sure that the faith is handed fully intact from one generation to another.

I would encourage you to read the book "Becoming Orthodox" by Father Peter Gillquist. It is a great introduction to the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church. It is the story of how 2000 evangelical came into Holy Orthodoxy together. A great portion of them were charismatic. The one thing that I have learned over the past couple of years is that the Orthodox church, in my opinion, is truly the most charismatic church in the world. It just manifests itself differently than it did in the penticostal/charismatic churches. In fact, another book that I would highly recommend you read after "Becoming Orthodox" is "The Mountian of Silence" by Kyriacos Markedes. You will see in that book what Orthodox spirituality looks like, and how it is practiced. It is much different than the west.

I would agree with you that there is more in common with the Episcoal churches (whatever brances they may be) with the Roman Catholic church than there is between the Holy Orthodox church and the RCC.

There were some postings on this board about how difficult it was to be Roman Catholic; I would submitt that it is probably more difficult being Orthodox. I do not say this out of pride (God forbid). It is not a contest. Orthodoxy requires that you follow Jesus's commandments litterally. We must forgive everyone, we must purify our hearts, we must fast, and crush our egos just to name a few things. The Orthodox fast over a third of the year (no animal products at all-no meat or dairy!)

I would encourage you to go check out some Orthodox churches (preferably an Antiochian Orthodox church if there is one in your town) just to experience it. No one will try to convert you. It is a good experience. Also, a cool website to check out is orthodoxtv.com . There are awesome sermons and stuff on there.

God grant you many years!!!!!!!!

-Jake

My next question is Then Why does the group that left for the Antiochian Orthodox from my old CEC parish have one them still celebrate Eucharist and have not finished their Cathecism Classes and they were not ordained by the Antiochian Orthodox Church. They meet in the basement of this persons house who celebrates the Eurcharist.... I have heard that they have a special dispensation. My friend I have a problem with this.

There is no Antiochian Orthodox that is even close to being local here. I am very happy in my Roman Catholic Church. I guess we will continue to be separated bretheren..... ah such is the problem with the body of Christ......

Thanks, Tony <_< :unsure:

Tony,

I don't know the situation or the details of your group that left the cec for the antiochian church, so I can't comment. Perhaps if a group is being taken in to Orthodoxy as a church (kind of like the Evangelical Orthodox did) then there might be special circumstances that the Bishop might allow for something like that, but like I said, I don't know the details of their situation, or how long ago that happened. It is up to the local bishop on how to recieve converts.

I would also point out that if what you are saying is true, it is the exception and not the norm. Anyone who has been around The Holy Church for a short period of time will know this to be the case. Orthodoxy is very conservative. Almost all Orthodox converts have to become catechumens for at least six or seven months before being chrismated. Usually it is about a year. Every situation is unique. The Priest has to determine how far along one is on the journey, and if the person is going to stick with it; moreover, the priest has to determine that the person is coming to the Holy Church because they really believe that the Church is the true Church, not just another denomination. A person can't run from one delusion to another.

If you are happy with being in the Roman church than good for you. We all have to do what we truly believe to be right. For me, I am convinced that the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church is the Church which Christ and the Apostles founded as recorded in the pages of the New Testament 2000 years ago. I also believe that Rome used to be Orthodox, and I pray that She comes back home.

God grant you many years Tony Baloney!!!!
Non Nobis Domine :D

-Jake

Some while ago, A Simple Sinner posted an interesting, albeit pointed, parable on the subject of reunion.

To me, it sums up the problem in a nutshell.

While I greatly respect much in Orthodoxy . . . this little parable does make a telling point.

Many blessings,

My Prayers is that we just are united and all can be a part of the true One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Orthodox or Rome it is a toss up. I for one believe it is Rome Sweet Home for me and the Western Hymns as well and they are quite a bit more prevalent than the Orthodox Churches especially in my County.

That group I was talking about left in Aug/Sept of the is year.... And yes one of the Priest is still operating as a priest. My next question by what authority does he able to operate as a priest if he is in fact not been Charismated and ordained in the Orthodox Church..... I see it as just reinventing the wheel in this particular group.
So so sad. Why they can't wait is beyond me. I am waiting and trusting the process of RCIA and being able to receive communion on Easter Vigil April 7th 2007..... :rolleyes: :)

I have to say, the one time I have been to an Orthodox Church was more than enough for me. It was not at all what I had expected, especially since I was told (in the CEC) that we were closer to being Orthodox than being Roman. Wow. Not even close! I think going to the RC is even a bit of a cultural leap for someone raised evangelical. But Orthodoxy is like...another planet, almost! ;)

Yep. Rome may not be perfect. But it's becoming more and more of a home.

I hear you truth seeker,

But Rome is not to foreign for me. I was borned and raised ECUSA or now TEC.
Back in the 60's and still 1928 prayer book it was more catholic than not minus the Latin...... I for one am feeling quite at home. I am very comfortable with the Liturgy now. Praise God that we all have crossed over this bridge.... to come Home to Rome...... :D

Truth Seeker,

The first time I visited an Orthodox church I only had a faint clue as to what was going on in the liturgy (only because of studying about the eastern liturgy in St. Michael's seminary). It was RADICALLY different from what I was used to. I realized, however, that it would take several of visists for me to get adjusted to what was going on. Over time I grew to love it. The liturgy has to be studied and learned because it is not self explanitory. Once one understands what is going on, it becomes heavenly to one's spirit.

I would encourage everyone to attend the liturgy of the cannon of St. Andrew during the first week of lent; also, to go to a forgivness sunday service (the sunday before lent.). These services are so beautiful and use the whole body in worship. You "know not whether you are in heaven or on earth".

As time goes on, I personally enjoy being different than the rest of the culture. The things that I thought I would miss, I don't really miss at all. I didn't have to give up my ethnic Identity (in fact, I wear my kilt every Pascha!). I actually wish that my parish would celebrate Christmas according to the old calander.


Christ is in our midst!!

Jake

NOTE THIS HAS BEEN CROSS-POSTED TO THE PRAYER SITE. I MEAN NO OFFENSE BY POSTING HERE AS WELL, SINCE IT IS GERMAINE TO THE TOPIC AT HAND.

From His Eminence, Metropolitan Nicholas of Amissos, of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, on the occasion of the upcoming meeting of the Pope Benedict XVI and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I:

O Holy Father, from Whom all blessings flow, we come before Thee in meekness and bow down: humbly we beseech Thee to look kindly upon the meeting of Patriarch Bartholomew, Archbishop of Constantinople, and Pope Benedict, Pontiff of Rome. For too long, there hath been division and alienation in the Church, when there should have been the unity of the Body of Christ. We beg Thy mercy and wisdom, O Lord, to provide for the welfare of the holy churches of God and for their union. Let this occasion of fellowship be for the healing of old disputes. In Thy infinite power, protect these Shepherds of the Great and Holy Pasture of Christ. Shield them, and all who attend, from the peril of harm. And in Thy matchless grace, establish a bright new work in these latter days, so that the world might see the Face of Christ; so that men and women might repent, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved in the Apostolic Church of God. For these supplications, we humbly beseech Thee, Holy Father, hear us and have mercy.

I agree -- most germane. All I have to add is . . . AMEN!

Amen to that as well....

Blessing to you MB

Tony

Has anyone had a chance to read the "Joint Declaration"? Do you have any thoughts?

I haven't had a chance to read it. Are there any links you have for the joint declaration???

-Jake

PS- I wanted to ask you all to pray for me. I broke my ankle in 2 different places this afternoon and I might need surgery. It hurts really bad!!!!!!

Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Have mercy on us!
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Have mercy on us!
Sfinte Dumnezeule, Sfinte tare, Sfinte fara de moarte, miluieste-ne pe noi !

( little Romanian for Y'all)

Common Declaration by Pope Benedict XVI and Patriarch Bartholomew I
“This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it!”

(Ps 117:24)

This fraternal encounter which brings us together, Pope Benedict XVI of Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, is God’s work, and in a certain sense his gift. We give thanks to the Author of all that is good, who allows us once again, in prayer and in dialogue, to express the joy we feel as brothers and to renew our commitment to move towards full communion. This commitment comes from the Lord’s will and from our responsibility as Pastors in the Church of Christ. May our meeting be a sign and an encouragement to us to share the same sentiments and the same attitudes of fraternity, cooperation and communion in charity and truth. The Holy Spirit will help us to prepare the great day of the re-establishment of full unity, whenever and however God wills it. Then we shall truly be able to rejoice and be glad.

1. We have recalled with thankfulness the meetings of our venerable predecessors, blessed by the Lord, who showed the world the urgent need for unity and traced sure paths for attaining it, through dialogue, prayer and the daily life of the Church. Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras I went as pilgrims to Jerusalem, to the very place where Jesus Christ died and rose again for the salvation of the world, and they also met again, here in the Phanar and in Rome. They left us a common declaration which retains all its value; it emphasizes that true dialogue in charity must sustain and inspire all relations between individuals and between Churches, that it “must be rooted in a total fidelity to the one Lord Jesus Christ and in mutual respect for their own traditions” (Tomos Agapis, 195). Nor have we forgotten the reciprocal visits of His Holiness Pope John Paul II and His Holiness Dimitrios I. It was during the visit of Pope John Paul II, his first ecumenical visit, that the creation of the Mixed Commission for theological dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church was announced. This has brought together our Churches in the declared aim of re-establishing full communion.

As far as relations between the Church of Rome and the Church of Constantinople are concerned, we cannot fail to recall the solemn ecclesial act effacing the memory of the ancient anathemas which for centuries had a negative effect on our Churches. We have not yet drawn from this act all the positive consequences which can flow from it in our progress towards full unity, to which the mixed Commission is called to make an important contribution. We exhort our faithful to take an active part in this process, through prayer and through significant gestures.

2. At the time of the plenary session of the mixed Commission for theological dialogue, which was recently held in Belgrade through the generous hospitality of the Serbian Orthodox Church, we expressed our profound joy at the resumption of the theological dialogue. This had been interrupted for several years because of various difficulties, but now the Commission was able to work afresh in a spirit of friendship and cooperation. In treating the topic “Conciliarity and Authority in the Church” at local, regional and universal levels, the Commission undertook a phase of study on the ecclesiological and canonical consequences of the sacramental nature of the Church. This will permit us to address some of the principal questions that are still unresolved. We are committed to offer unceasing support, as in the past, to the work entrusted to this Commission and we accompany its members with our prayers.

3. As Pastors, we have first of all reflected on the mission to proclaim the Gospel in today’s world. This mission, “Go, make disciples of all nations” (Mt 28:19), is today more timely and necessary than ever, even in traditionally Christian countries. Moreover, we cannot ignore the increase of secularization, relativism, even nihilism, especially in the Western world. All this calls for a renewed and powerful proclamation of the Gospel, adapted to the cultures of our time. Our traditions represent for us a patrimony which must be continually shared, proposed, and interpreted anew. This is why we must strengthen our cooperation and our common witness before the world.

4. We have viewed positively the process that has led to the formation of the European Union. Those engaged in this great project should not fail to take into consideration all aspects affecting the inalienable rights of the human person, especially religious freedom, a witness and guarantor of respect for all other freedoms. In every step towards unification, minorities must be protected, with their cultural traditions and the distinguishing features of their religion. In Europe, while remaining open to other religions and to their cultural contributions, we must unite our efforts to preserve Christian roots, traditions and values, to ensure respect for history, and thus to contribute to the European culture of the future and to the quality of human relations at every level. In this context, how could we not evoke the very ancient witnesses and the illustrious Christian heritage of the land in which our meeting is taking place, beginning with what the Acts of the Apostles tells us concerning the figure of Saint Paul, Apostle of the Gentiles? In this land, the Gospel message and the ancient cultural tradition met. This link, which has contributed so much to the Christian heritage that we share, remains timely and will bear more fruit in the future for evangelization and for our unity.

5. Our concern extends to those parts of today’s world where Christians live and to the difficulties they have to face, particularly poverty, wars and terrorism, but equally to various forms of exploitation of the poor, of migrants, women and children. We are called to work together to promote respect for the rights of every human being, created in the image and likeness of God, and to foster economic, social and cultural development. Our theological and ethical traditions can offer a solid basis for a united approach in preaching and action. Above all, we wish to affirm that killing innocent people in God’s name is an offence against him and against human dignity. We must all commit ourselves to the renewed service of humanity and the defense of human life, every human life.

We take profoundly to heart the cause of peace in the Middle East, where our Lord lived, suffered, died and rose again, and where a great multitude of our Christian brethren have lived for centuries. We fervently hope that peace will be re-established in that region, that respectful coexistence will be strengthened between the different peoples that live there, between the Churches and between the different religions found there. To this end, we encourage the establishment of closer relationships between Christians, and of an authentic and honest interreligious dialogue, with a view to combating every form of violence and discrimination.

6. At present, in the face of the great threats to the natural environment, we want to express our concern at the negative consequences for humanity and for the whole of creation which can result from economic and technological progress that does not know its limits. As religious leaders, we consider it one of our duties to encourage and to support all efforts made to protect God’s creation, and to bequeath to future generations a world in which they will be able to live.

7. Finally, our thoughts turn towards all of you, the faithful of our two Churches throughout the world, Bishops, priests, deacons, men and women religious, lay men and women engaged in ecclesial service, and all the baptized. In Christ we greet other Christians, assuring them of our prayers and our openness to dialogue and cooperation. In the words of the Apostle of the Gentiles, we greet all of you: “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Cor 1:2).


At the Phanar, 30 November 2006

Benedict XVI Bartholomew I

Prayers Ascending!!!

The declaration is very encouraging. I hope that a day will come when there can be reconcilliation.

CHRIST IS BORN!
GLORIFY HIM!!

-Jake

And this interview leads to much speculation about a "proposal". Very Encouraging! :rolleyes:

Patriarch Bartholomew I on the Papal Visit
Interview With Orthodox Church Leader

ISTANBUL, Turkey, DEC. 1, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI's visit to the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople "is of incalculable value in the process of reconciliation," says Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew I.

In this interview with the Italian newspaper Avvenire, the patriarch revealed that he made an unexpected ecumenical proposal to the Pope.

Q: What can you tell us about this journey?

Bartholomew I: Above all, I must say that I truly thank His Holiness for his visit to us on the feast day of St. Andrew. It is a truly very significant step forward in our relations, and undertaken in the framework of a journey which has made, on the whole, a contribution to interreligious dialogue which I think is truly important.

Q: You and the Pope have seen one another face to face several times, away from the cameras and journalists. What have you said to one another?

Bartholomew I: His Holiness showed his benevolence to the patriarchate and its problems; for this reason we are truly grateful to him.

It has been an opportunity to know one another better, including the cardinals of his entourage, with whom I think we have established a good friendship, and this also seems to me to be very important.

We can truly say that this Thursday we lived a historic day, under many aspects. Historic for ecumenical dialogue and, as we saw in the afternoon, historic for the relationship between cultures and religions. And, obviously, because of all this, historic also for our country.

Q: The addresses and common declaration you signed are "lofty" and compromising. Have you also spoken of the future?

Bartholomew I: In this respect, I can say that I spoke with His Holiness of something -- something that we could do. I presented him with a proposal which I cannot now elaborate on, as we await an official response, but I can say that His Holiness was very interested and that he received it favorably.

We hope it can be undertaken as it is directed to that ecumenical progress that, as we have affirmed and written in the common declaration, both of us are determined to pursue.

Q: Why are you so determined?

Bartholomew I: Unity is a precious responsibility, but at the same time a difficult one which must be assumed if it is not shared between brothers. The history of the last millennium is a painful "memory" of this reality.

We are profoundly convinced that Benedict XVI's visit has incalculable value in this process of reconciliation, as, in addition, it has taken place at such a difficult time and in very delicate circumstances.

Without a doubt, with the help of God we are offered the opportunity to take a beneficial step forward in the process of reconciliation in our Churches. And perhaps, with the help of God, we will be given the opportunity to surmount some of the barriers of incomprehension among believers of different religions, in particular between Christians and Muslims.

Q: Earlier you also mentioned the importance of this for Turkey. Why?

Bartholomew I: Being at the crossroads of Europe and Asia, this city and this Church hold a truly unique position to foster a meeting among modern civilizations. In a certain sense, Istanbul is the perfect place to become a permanent center of dialogue between the different faiths and cultures

So, any speculation as to the nature of the proposal? I hope it arrives before Christmas so I can "shake the package and try to figure out what it is". I hope it is what we hope for. Steps forward from assumed unity to visible unity.

Any thoughts?

A good analogy! One continues to hope and to pray, especially that the fraternal bond of love which existed between the late Patriarch Athenagorus and the late Blessed Pope John XXIII continue and be strengthened.