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Title: Discussions Concerning the "CEC"
Description: Current events in the "CEC"


David Zampino - August 17, 2006 03:28 AM (GMT)
MODERATOR'S NOTE!!!

THE ORIGINAL CEC DISCUSSION THREAD IS CLOSED!!!

THE MAIN REASON? AFTER MORE THAN 2,000 POSTS -- AND MORE THAN 50 TIMES THAT NUMBER OF VIEWS, IT HAS BECOME IMPOSSIBLE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES (REAL OR IMAGINED) THAT CAUSED THE ORIGINAL THREAD TO BE OPENED!

THIS THREAD IS OPEN TO ANY AND ALL WHO WISH TO POST -- ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE POSTED ON THE PREVIOUS "CEC" THREAD. HOWEVER -- THERE WILL BE SOME BASIC GROUND RULES!!!

1) NO FOUL LANGUAGE WILL BE TOLERATED!!! NO COMMENTS ABOUT GENITALIA, BATHROOM FUNCTIONS, SEXUALITY, ETC. WILL BE PERMITTED. I'M STUNNED THAT I WOULD EVEN HAVE TO BE REMINDING "CHRISTIANS" ABOUT THIS . . . BUT, THERE IT IS!

2) HUMOR CAN HURT! ON THE PREVIOUS THREAD, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME WHO, FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, HAVE SEEN FIT TO POST STATEMENTS WHICH SOME HAVE FOUND (VERY) HUMOROUS. OTHERS, HOWEVER, HAVE FOUND SUCH RESPONSES TO BE OFFENSIVE AT BEST. I AM PROPOSING A "HUMOR" SECTION ON THIS FORUM -- WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT ANYONE CAN POST -- AND THAT "BEING OFFENDED" IS NOT ALLOWED!!!

3) ALL PARTICIPANTS ON THIS PARTICULAR THREAD MUST BE REGISTERED USERS. ALL OTHERS WILL BE DELETED.

4) SPAMMING IS NOT ALLOWED. MULTIPLE POSTS UNDER DIFFERENT USER NAMES WITHIN MINUTES OF EACH OTHER WILL RESULT IN THE DELETION OF THE POSTS IN QUESTION.

5) PUBLIC COMMENTS ATTACKING THE RULES OF THE FORUM WILL BE REMOVED. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH DAVID B. OR MYSELF, PLEASE REMEMBER THE BIBLICAL WAY OF HANDLING SUCH DIFFICULTIES. COME TO US DIRECTLY.

IT IS MY INTENT TO CLOSE THIS THREAD EACH FRIDAY EVENING AND RE-OPEN IT EACH MONDAY MORNING, SO THAT PARTICIPANTS CAN SPEND TIME IN PRAYER -- AND CAN THINK BEFORE THEY POST.]

ANY QUESTIONS? CONTACT ME DIRECTLY!!!

THE FIRST FEW POSTS ON THIS NEW THREAD WILL BE TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM THE CLOSED THREAD. PLEASE ADDRESS SPECIFIC POINTS OF CONTENTION, AND AVOID CONDEMNATION OF OPPONENTS.

THANK YOU!!!

David Zampino - August 17, 2006 03:30 AM (GMT)
The original post from David B.

QUOTE
Recently I posted this over at our Group Blog, Per Christum and the reaction has been overwhelming:

I briefly flirted with the idea of joining the Charismatic Episcopal Church, but quite a few things stood in the way of me joining. One major reason I didn't join was what was happening in the CEC cathedral a friend of mine attended. The bishop suspended the liturgy when the "Spirit moved" and the behavior seemed more charismatic than Catholic. There are other incidents, not to mention that the CEC suffers from many of the same issues as Anglicanism, but I won't go into all of this here. I have a few friends who are active in the church, and I think the CEC does many good things. Thus, I still take an interest in the Charismatic Episcopal Church. It is not my intention to slander the Charismatic Episcopal church, nor do I want to get a comment war going about their weaknesses.

However, it seems that quite a few dioceses have either pulled out or been kicked out of the CEC. One of these is the archdiocese in which I live, the Great Lakes Archdiocese. Apparently Bishop Fick has pulled our whole region out. Bishop Philip Zampino has done the same thing, a man widely respected in the CEC (His son David Zampino recently became Catholic; I know him through the amazon.com friends and favorites pages, where we both have written many book reviews).

Does anybody know what is exactly going on in the CEC?

Let some discussion commence!

David Zampino - August 17, 2006 03:34 AM (GMT)
The original letter from Bp. Ken Myers, as published by "Truth Speaker".

QUOTE
This letter went out to the Patriarch's Council on June 13th, and to all the rest of the CEC Bishops about 10 days later . . .

June 13, 2006

Brothers in Christ:

This from the one who was seen as perhaps overly compassionate in Thomaston. I said in Thomaston last week that I found myself between a rock and a hard place. The rock was that I had no intention of leaving the CEC, the hard place was that I had no trust in its present leadership.

One of the sports I have most enjoyed in life is kayaking, though I have done it only a few times. I remember once being warned by others of some pretty serious rapids downstream. When I reached a place where the stream narrowed and the water picked up speed I maneuvered through the turmoil not with ease, but certainly with no great struggle. I laughed that these people had overblown the situation. I thought myself fairly adept as a novice. Then I heard the waters ahead. I thought I had just passed through the trial of water, but the trial was still ahead. Suffice it to say that I did not emerge unscathed, and emerge is the right word for it follows after submerge.

I thought that last week in Thomaston was the rock and the hard place. It was not.

As I told you then, I came to the meeting with the anticipation of asking Archbishop Adler to step down from the office of Patriarch. If you remember I left the meeting in a better place, but still saying to him and to you all that I had no trust and that trust was something that must be rebuilt and such would take a long time, and that indeed a sabbatical might be in place.

When I returned home I heard from people close to me; people I love, people I respect and people who have stood with me for years and decades through good and bad times. I heard from my wife, who endured the humiliation of improper conduct from the Patriarch (and the further humiliation of my not immediately confronting him). I heard from my son whose very faith was tested by what he saw in the Patriarch (and, I must add, in my not dealing with it years ago). I heard from members of my Bishop’s Council – men to whom I look for their spiritual insight and wisdom, and men who have not displayed any of the questionable characteristics that have caused me such great concern in the present situation - trustworthy men, I mean. I heard from laity who have nothing at stake except the intense desire to belong to a sound church which will protect them and direct them and carry them safely into the future.

I have even heard from the late John Paul II (not, mind you, directly, but in his book Rise, Let Us Be On Our Way) “Lack of courage in a bishop is the beginning of disaster. Can he still be an apostle? Witnessing to the Truth is essential for an apostle: and this always demands courage.”

And again, “The greatest weakness in an apostle is fear.”

And again, “Truly, there can be no turning one's back upon the truth, ceasing to proclaim it, hiding it, even if it is a hard truth that can only be revealed at the cost of great suffering. 'You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free' (John 8:32). This is our duty and our source of strength! Here there is no room for compromise nor for an opportunistic recourse to human diplomacy. We have to bear witness to the truth, even at the cost of persecutions, even to the shedding of our blood, like Christ Himself.”

And again, “People have always needed models to imitate, and that need is all the greater today, amid such a welter of confusing and conflicting ideas.”

Models to imitate. My God, have mercy on my soul. It occurs to me that I have failed in all of this, miserably.

In Thomaston we talked about the damage caused when a bishop separates – “leaves the church” is the language that we used, and how such separation cannot be mended without consequences – the consequences of a sabbatical at best, and possibly even stepping down completely from the episcopate.

And yet there were no consequences beyond therapy and some form of formal repentance demanded from one who has also seriously wounded the church, in ways that I suspect are more damaging than a bishop leaving.

There is a declaration of unity being drafted – one to which I am supposed to add my thoughts – which I am not now sure I can even sign.

I can sign a declaration of unity around the vision of the CEC. I can sign a declaration of unity around the office of the Patriarch. But I cannot sign a declaration if such signature means unity around the person of the Patriarch, for I have concluded that the person of the Patriarch is wounded and needs to be in a place of healing, not of leadership.

I may well be seen as being, as has been thought and said of others, double-minded. I do not believe this is the case. I have simply come further downstream and see the perils before us. These rapids are not joyrides, they are lifetakers. I, for one, perhaps need to portage.

I may well be seen as being, as has been thought and said of others, overly influenced by those around me. Some may say, “But we came to a decision together in Thomaston”. I will remind them that there have been councils of bishops, even so-called ecumenical councils, which were overturned by the voice of the Holy Spirit that came forth from the people of God, these councils thus losing their authority and certainly their ecumenicity. I encourage you, each one, to make an intentional hearing of the voice of the people of God near you – your wives, your councils, your trusted spiritual brothers.

I love the man Randolph Adler. I care deeply for him. I have admired him. But I believe for the health and unity of the church he needs to remove himself from office. To “end well”, as we have all been so quick to discuss in years past, may well mean stepping aside before things get worse, for, as we have also heard frequently in years past, “past conduct is a predicter of future behavior unless there is radical transformation.” I do not believe such radical transformation to be possible without extended time and help. Certainly the fruit of such transformation is not possible without an extended time for trust to be rebuilt.

I have not protected my wife. This is my fault, not Bishop Adler’s. I repent for this and firmly intend amendment of life.

I have not protected my children. This is my fault, not Bishop Adler’s. I repent for this and firmly intend amendment of life.

I have not protected my clergy. This is my fault, not Bishop Adler’s. I repent for this and firmly intend amendment of life.

I have not protected my people. This is my fault, not Bishop Adler’s. I repent for this and firmly intend amendment of life.

Will I also not protect the literally thousands of people in Latin America poised with anticipation and ready this very moment to join our communion? Shall I keep them ignorant of the difficulties we face in our current predicament?

In the twelve step program the eighth step is to make a list of all persons we have harmed and become willing to make amends to them. Perhaps this letter is the first movement toward that firm amendment of life which I intend.

One among us has been judged for the wrong response of leaving. Instead, it was said, he should have stayed and fought for his church. I will not be judged for the same wrong response. I am not leaving (there again is the rock, grown larger) but I cannot continue under present leadership (and there is the hard place grown harder).

The truth is that other voices need to be heard. Other people, including bishops and priests, need to speak clearly and truthfully to the situation. We have made much, perhaps too much, of “love covering a multitude of sins”. Here is what the fathers said:

“The one who sins does not love, for love covers a multitude of sins. Love cuts out the desire to sin, and since it also casts out fear, it is obviously full of perfect faith” (Ambrose).

“Nothing is stronger against the wiles of the devil, dearly beloved, than the kindness, mercy and generosity of love, through which every sin is either avoided or conquered” (Leo the Great).

This text is not about loving someone and so covering up sins, but about love within ourselves doing such a work as to cover (paint over, obliterate) the sins we ourselves struggle with. Even in dealing with the sins of others, this text is not an invitation to love someone and thus pretend the sin isn’t there, it is rather an invitation to love someone and by that love do the hard work of effacing the sin. Love covers sins like the glory cloud covered Sinai - it transforms the arid crags of our sinful lives into the very heavenly throneroom. The fathers of the church agree that love covers the sins of those who exercise such love. This borders on “works righteousness” (but remember, without works our faith is dead) – the point of the text is not to hide someone else’s sins, but that our own living forth of genuine love keeps us in the flow of the stream of forgiveness, in which all our sins are counted as nothing. The point of my short sermon is this: we are not being responsible by, in the name of love, not dealing with major problems. We are instead being derelict in our duties. I am not calling for exposure or humiliation of a brother who is wounded or sinful. I am calling, however, for actually dealing with the matter. Immediately before Peter tells us that love covers a multitude of sins he warns us, “the end of all things is at hand, therefore be of sound judgment and sober spirit…” I believe if we are not of sound judgment and sober spirit in this matter the end of all things may well be at hand for our communion.

I do not intend to leave the CEC. It may well be that I will be asked to leave. That is in your hands and not mine. I am not doing the wrong thing of leaving. I am doing the right thing of asking us as the Patriarch’s Council to invite Bishop Adler to retire. The problem is not that Bishop Adler has taken no steps toward amendment of life; he has. The problem is that too much damage has been done for him to continue as the leader of this church. I ask him to voluntarily retire thus keeping the unity of the church and thus keeping his own honor as a leader. Remember Hezekiah.

I am, more than ever, shooting the rapids between a rock and a hard place.

+Kenneth

David Zampino - August 17, 2006 03:37 AM (GMT)
The original letter from Bp. Rick Painter, as published by "Truth Speaker".

QUOTE
Dear Kenneth and other Bishops:

I have waited until now to respond to this email. My purpose was to calm myself down and to order my thoughts before responding. It would have been very easy to act in frustration, temper, and revulsion. This is only another straw on the proverbial "camels' back". It is, to me, one more illustration of what is plaguing the CEC.I find myself quite distressed today. We have gone around and around on dealing with "issues" and, in my view, have refused to deal with the "core issue", namely that the CEC has become a "personality cult" and the defense of the "patriarch" is to be done at all costs...regardless of how many clergy, churches, and laity, are wounded and compelled to go elsewhere. I realize this single statement will result in angry denouncements and my email box will fill up. So be it.

The fact that the only correspondence that + Ken has received was two emails to "rebuff" him for not following some protocol, due process, or some procedural policy is beynd belief! First, since when do processes, procedures, or protocols take precedence over "hurting people"?! My God, what have we come to in trying to protect one person and his position?! I was "sickened" when I read of this incident and I called my brother just to love on him and Shirley and offer my prayers and help in anyway. Regardless, of what happened it was obvious that he and Shirley were hurting. My offer to help was what I was taught is the expected response of a Christian. Second, I was in a state of unbelief that after 10 days there was no response from +Ken's fellow members of the Patriarch's Council. Why?! (So much for the CEC being built on "relationships"!) 3. Where was "due protocol, due process, and procedures in + Phil Zampino's situation? When did he receive a list of charges in writing? When did he receive a hearing? When did he get to face his accuser or accusers? When was the House of Bishops notified of his impending hearing and of the charges against him? We are told we have to follow the Canons...since when? Our leaders only invoke the Canons when they want something to go their way. Even Abp. Jones said, "they should have been written on toilet paper in explaining how much they were ignored". It does cause one to question what is going on. It gives occasion for doubt and question as to motives and actions. Brothers, this is a mess!

Gentlemen, I wish to share briefly, what I shared with +Sly last summer. >From my years of experience I am convinced that we are dealing with a "cultic" spirit. In seminary I taught the men that the most important gift for the clergy is "discerning of spirits". We have all seen those that seemed so "right" and were, in actual point of fact, so "wrong". Not in what they said but, in the "spirit" behind it. Also, we have all seen those that started "right on" and became "way out". This, to me, is where we are. A few signs of "cultism": 1. Control information and discussion thereby squelching dissent. 2. Preach the same thing repeatedly...indoctrination. 3. Divide the group and isolate individuals...marginalize to minimize credibilty. 4. All money goes "up" and only enough comes "down" to appease the critics. 5. Use and abuse of those that are at various levels of leadership forcing submission without question. Keeps everybody in their place. This is only a few, there are many others...but, these illustrate my point.How does this apply to the CEC?

What follows is from a teaching I did in 1989 entitled, "CHARISMATIC WITCHCRAFT: THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM IN THE CHURCH". The acronym "mind" serves at this time. M-anipulation; I-ntimidation; N-egotiation; and D-omination. Those at the head of "cultic" groups will manipulate, intimidate, and even, negotiate just to maintain their positions and income...read, to dominate! This is a major problem throughout the Charismatic Churches, and is what we in the CEC are facing now. I am not saying that Abp. Adler is a witch only that he is operating in the spirit behind it...check Galatians 5:19-21. It is time to be honest and admit that these terms describe what has been happening in the CEC. The instances are too numerous to list suffice it to say we are all aware of times when one, or more, of these devices have been used to silence all of us and to make us fall in line.

I point this out to address + Ken's letters. This event must focus us on the larger problem...the head of our church is "sick" and "dysfunctional". We, also must, admit we have all failed in our duties as bishops in not confronting these things long ago. We have become like the abused members of the family of an abusive father. We hate what he does...and, yet, cover for him and thus enable him to continue in his warped behavior. When you have an egotistic, defensive neurotic in leadership you have a formula for disaster. And, when we have been manipulated, intimidated, and negotiated into being dominated all in the name of "love" and "covering the weaknesses" of a brother, we have been cowardly and have let down the clergy and people of the CEC. Please note the all inclusive pronouns I am using...I am guilty of not standing up when and as, I should. For this I have repented and do repent to you my Brothers. NEVER AGAIN!

My Brothers, if the grievance of + Ken and Shirley is not addressed immediately we should be ashamed of ourselves! Those that have the authority to do so must call for the convening of the appropriate council to deal with this deplorable situation. To wait until September is to belittle Shirley and to insult + Ken. If it was any of our wives we would be raising hell instead of employing these delaying tactics. I join +Ken in calling for the resignation of Abp. Adler and, I would also add, we need to move the headquarters out of San Clemente. A sabbatical will not suffice! There has been too much lost of confidence, trust, and willingness in dealing with our Brother to place him back in authority. He definitely needs to be restored however, that does not necessarily mean to an "office". We are dealing with a lifestyle of "prophetic over emphasis and abuse" and of a management style that contributes to the confusion and disorder that presently exists. When one "under the guise of hearing the Spirit" couches everything in "hyper spirituality" it is very difficult, if not impossible for them to change.

I appreciate your patience in reading this too long email. It is just unbelievable to me that + Ken cannot get a response to his correspondence and charges...I am appalled by the failure to communicate to a brother that is one of us, our friend! I realize my letter may hurt his situation more than to help it...as I know where I stand in the eyes of some of you...however, to remain silent would be more cowardice on my part...NO MORE, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

Pro Dei Regno,

+ Rick Painter

kenfollis@juno.com - August 17, 2006 04:01 AM (GMT)

July 11, 2006

VirtueOnline received this document from a source in the Charismatic Episcopal Church (CEC) and posts it without comment or verification as to its accuracy. It appeared briefly at the official website of the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church (ICCEC). It was removed almost immediately.

The following is a Statement to the Communion of the Patriarch's Council of the ICCEC

Brother and Sisters in Christ--

We, the bishops of the Charismatic Episcopal Church, stand in unity under Jesus Christ, who makes us one by the Spirit of his Father. Our communion of churches remains strong in the thrice-bound cords of divine love that the Spirit makes possible, especially in our weakness.

We, the bishops of the Charismatic Episcopal Church, stand in unity under Jesus Christ, who makes us one by the Spirit of his Father. Our communion of churches remains strong in the thrice-bound cords of divine love that the Spirit makes possible, especially in our weakness.

As bishops of the People of God it is first and foremost our duty to guard the faith, doctrine, and unity of the Church. When we fail to do that, the faithful of the church are vulnerable to scandal and injury. It is to fulfill this duty that we speak openly now, to comfort the sheep of this little flock and to let the skeptics visible and invisible know that this communion's bishops stand sure in the confidence and peace that Christ alone gives.

As the senior bishops met in Thomaston, Georgia, June 7-8, we re- dedicated ourselves to that ongoing work of unity, charitable engagement, and truth-seeking. The commitment continues.

As has been reported widely, our brother bishop, The Most Rev. Frederick Fick, and his auxiliary bishop, The Most Rev. Donald Miles, resigned from the Charismatic Episcopal Church in late May. The resignations of a majority (but by no means all) of the clergy and parishes of the Great Lakes Diocese, while never received in writing by us, were also widely reported.

Bishop Fick's resignation took us by surprise, as he had left the recent House of Bishops meeting (in mid-March), along with all his brothers, reenergized and renewed about the vision and work of the Charismatic Episcopal Church and dedicated to making us a better church. He publicly stated his loyalty to his brothers and pledged to work together with us as we built this church for the next generation. The bishops were disappointed by this unilateral departure taken without their advice and counsel.

The bishops of the Charismatic Episcopal Church were eager to share with Bishop Fick that, if by things done or things left undone, we had contributed to his sudden and alarming departure, we publicly request his forgiveness and the forgiveness of all the faithful clergy and laity who have been affected.

Out of deep love and respect for their brother, and for the clergy and people of the Great Lakes Diocese, Archbishop Adler, Archbishop Sly, and Bishop Bates traveled to Detroit this week to meet with Frederick Fick, and with those clergy of the diocese who were able to meet with them on such short notice.

Honest discussions and confrontations ensued concerning a variety of problems in our church and perceptions concerning some of the leaders. While the bishops repeatedly asked for specificity or some verifiable charge, no specific heresy, immoral act, or gross negligence was proffered against any leader of the Charismatic Episcopal Church. The issues, though varied, revealed at least one significant factor that led to the resignations: a breakdown in communication between Bishop Fick and his brother bishops and between Bishop Fick and his clergy, a breakdown for which Bishop Fick acknowledged sole responsibility throughout the meetings in Detroit.

Some progress was achieved in a spirit of reconciliation, but there is yet more work to be done.

We are pleased to announce that Bishop Frederick Fick and Archbishop Adler have mutually withdrawn Bishop Fick's resignation from the Charismatic Episcopal Church. He requested an indefinite sabbatical from the episcopacy, and will continue to pastor St. John the Apostle Church in Clinton Township, Michigan. It is our fond hope that he will continue to work with young men as a mentor of ministers and ministries.

At Bishop Fick's suggestion, all of the clergy of the Great Lakes Diocese were given 90 days to prayerfully consider whether to remain in the Charismatic Episcopal Church and were immediately invited back by the bishops without question or suspicion. Many clergy confessed they did not need additional time to make such a decision and afterward renewed their commitment to our communion of churches.

A few may have received reports that the Most Rev. Philip C. Zampino and the clergy and laity of Life in Jesus Community in Maryland have also resigned from the CEC. This is true, but their resignation has not been accepted by the bishops. We are diligently seeking to restore our table fellowship with these our precious brothers and sisters in Christ. The churches of Bishop Zampino's diocese, with the exception of one parish and one new mission, remain committed to the vision and work of our church and are not leaving. We trust that this serious tear will also, by divine mercy, be healed.

A meeting of the Eastern Province clergy (Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, West Virginia, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania) has been called for June 22 at which Archbishop Randolph Sly, Bishop Richard Lipka, Archbishop Randolph Adler, and Bishop Craig Bates seek to encourage, clarify and strengthen their brothers in God and to pray for reunion and divine blessing.

In the meantime, we actively reach out to all clergy and congregations that remain estranged from the communion and ask your contrite prayers that God will have mercy on the Charismatic Episcopal Church and its clergy and people.

We ask all of the faithful to walk as instruments of peace and to walk in love. "Love bears all things. Believes all things. Hopes all things. Love never fails." Please bear yourselves in charity toward all our brothers and sisters in this difficult time.

We believe God called us into existence for a reason. We remain dedicated to the founding vision of our communion and ask all of the faithful to stand with us as intercessors and spiritual warriors, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

As bishops we bear responsibility for all that happens within the Charismatic Episcopal Church and we ask your forgiveness for any errors or injuries real or perceived, known to us or unknownwe have committed by omission or commission. We are truly sorry for this tear in our unity and accept that we bear, as the spiritual heads of our communion, this burden. We covet your prayers.

We are thankful to God for the reunion achieved this week and ask for grace from the Throne of God to make our reconciliation complete and lasting.

The peace and benediction of Christ be with you all,

Signed: The Patriarch's Council of the Charismatic Episcopal Church

David Virtue just posted the original statement from the Patriarch's Council that was later taken down from the CEC website. See his commentary before he posted the official statement here on his news website:

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules...hp?storyid=4448

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News : CHARISMATIC EPISCOPAL CHURCH EXPERIENCES SPLIT
Posted by David Virtue on 2006/7/11 10:00:00 (392 reads)
CHARISMATIC EPISCOPAL CHURCH EXPERIENCES SPLIT

Posted but not written by David W. Virtue

John Wayne - August 17, 2006 05:12 AM (GMT)
In response to Nell’s post from the “original thread.”

Very perceptive, Nell.

Seems the turmoil of elephants in our living room keeps us unforgiving. Elephants get into our living room because we would rather ignore forgiving others than be free of them. Every person we do not forgive is another elephant we let in. This is what happens when you are willing to ignore the things that stir you up. And, this will only abate when we stop letting them in and blaming them for our mess. Jesus told us to pray for people who upset us.

Forgiveness is probably one of the most misunderstood commands for mankind, not just Christians. It ranks right up next to the misunderstanding of the meaning of love and grace. Jesus spent a lot of time teaching on forgiveness. His words were. "Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven and whose sins you do not forgive, they are not forgiven."

The problem here is one of not understanding the grammar. "Whoever" is not the noun, it is a modifier of sins. The "they" refers back to the noun not the modifier. It goes like this, " Whoever sins you forgive, those sins are forgiven, and whoever sins you do not forgive, those sins are not forgiven." The translation for the Greek word "forgive" is "release". It tells us, whoever sins you release they are released to them, and whoever sins you retain, they are retained ( to you). That is the way it goes. If we do not forgive the anger, the hurt is ours.

The elephants in the living room own you. They can tell you where to sit, how to feel and what to do. They own you. The worst person in the world "owns" us until we have forgiven them.

Which brings us to a whole other topic, “Self-justification of unforgiveness.”

When you receive correction and reproof from one and can humbly submit inwardly, as well as outwardly, finding no rebellion, retaliation, self-sympathy, self-defense, self-vindication, self-justification, resentment, bitterness, and unforgiveness in your heart....that is dying to self.

When your wishes are crossed, your advice disregarded, your opinions ridiculed, and you refuse to let anger rise in your heart, or even defend yourself, but take it all in patient, loving silence....that is dying to self.

But….be of good cheer for God is not mad at you! Nor am I thinking anyone to be “benighted, disgusting, rebellious, vile, or a poor excuse of a human being, or words to that effect.” God is willing to help and save you…are you willing to be helped and saved is the question? Gosh, sounds like an altar call. Is that “latent Protestantism” or just love? I’ll leave it to you to be the judge. ;)

Guest` - August 17, 2006 06:47 AM (GMT)
In response to Nell’s post from the “original thread.”

Yes I so agree with you. It seems many people are very hurt and speak out in bitterness and this is sad. So much so that the simple but profound truth that "God loves us, that He is not mad" (what seems to have become the "CEC motto" if you will) has to some become unacceptable (Christians no less), perhaps even a curse (whoa that is scary, but think about it)

There is a lesson in this for all of us, no matter what our position is: namely we need to forgive. This is also why I have called for those who have left the CEC to MOVE ON. Not to sweep problems under the rug, to ignore legitimate issues. But for their own sake. So many good people posting on the original thread, and who have left the CEC, seem stuck in bitterness and they can't let go. To them a word of advise: move on. The Lord will bless you on your new journey. Pray for us who have decided to stay. Pray for us, we have many faults.

For those of us in the CEC I ask: how can we become part of the solution? What can we do to facilitate change? Is it business as usual, or time for a sweeping change (do I hear TSUNAMI??). What is or should the role of the laity be?

To the non-clergy CEC members in particular I ask: To what degree should we hold ourselves responsible, having allowed this type of situation to fester because of our passivity?

Guest` - August 17, 2006 07:00 AM (GMT)
I am reposting (chucking up??) the following from the original thread. I am looking forward to your comments and insight:

I wrote (whoa I am quoting myself (I feel so important) do you need a license for that?):

QUOTE

I have a few questions:

1. how do we reconcile apostolic succession and Protestantism? Are they mutually exclusive? It appears the CEC wants to go ante 1054 AD. Is that even possible, if so by whose authority?

2. how is ecclesiastical government different from civil government? How are they the same? What are the similarities? Can we learn anything from this study in relation to the CEC and the present situation?

3. it is my contention that the main source of the present issues is a lack of accountability (ok so I am partially answering question no. 2). How best would this be solved? How would a system of "checks and balances" be implemented?


Ok hope to hear from you all tonight, have to go to work now.

philip xavier - August 17, 2006 08:55 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Guest` @ Aug 17 2006, 01:47 AM)
There is a lesson in this for all of us, no matter what our position is: namely we need to forgive. This is also why I have called for those who have left the CEC to MOVE ON. Not to sweep problems under the rug, to ignore legitimate issues. But for their own sake. So many good people posting on the original thread, and who have left the CEC, seem stuck in bitterness and they can't let go. To them a word of advise: move on. The Lord will bless you on your new journey. Pray for us who have decided to stay. Pray for us, we have many faults.

I have to congratulate the moderators for the wisdom of returning to the "original vision " of this forum-that is to provide a space to ventilate and thresh out the problems besetting the CEC, with the hope of improving the deafening silence of its leaders.

I, for one, have enjoyed reading (devoured) every post in it-no matter how hurting at times-being an active CEC parishioner in SE-Asia.I agree that the CEC is far from perfect.I believe that our communion is in the middle of a storm which may or may not cause its demise. I believe that the valid issues have to be confronted-the bitter pill swallowed-for us to live.

Yes we have to move on...for to wallow in despair and bitterness is to stagnate and die....slowly. We have to fix the problem, not the blame. With God's grace, with God's help....

Indeed, we are in the middle of the storm..and in this storm do we see the LORD past asleep in our midst despite the raging waters seemingly unaffected and unaware? Will we panic and wake Him up?Or do we, with the smallest flame of faith in our heart, command the storm to be still?... do we see a ghost walking above the water...?or do we see the Lord's presence even in the turbulence of the sea?...

Like the prophet of old, may we listen intently to the still small voice of God...and not be distracted by the lightning and thunder and fire around us....

pxiii





Collin Nunis, sj - August 17, 2006 09:41 AM (GMT)
For now, it would advisable to stay silent until the bishops meet next month. Only then, can we figure out what to say or do. At this point, it would be foolish to do anything. Take the time to think for now. It won't be long until the bishop's meet next month. For now, let us just focus on our other commitments as 146 pages of talk is enough. We have all said enough. We have been frustrated enough. And we have offered ample positive solutions and reinforcements. Let us now wait and see. Let us just go back and wait in the "upper room" to see what happens next.

In the meantime, let us just post our reflections and what's going on in each other's churches, irrespective of each other's denomination. Talk like this will set us in "incubation" mode and will definitely refresh us. How about it?

InOtherWords - August 17, 2006 03:40 PM (GMT)
Thought this might be helpful

[QUOTE]
List of Allegations Regarding the Current ICCEC Crisis
Including Substantiations and Refutations
Originally complied by Ken Follis
Currently Maintained by RoaringOasis
An opening note from Ken Follis:
So is it over for the ICCEC? This appears to be a chapter closing in my own history. With
all the confusion, I am not sure why it is unraveling. However it seemed to have been "wool
sewed to silk" from the beginning so I am not too surprised just saddened since I know so many
whose careers and faiths are now in jeopardy. My own spiritual history has been tied to the CEC.
Bridgette said it best, “Many people believed very strongly in the original vision of the CEC. Many
left other jobs and other denominations that they had devoted their lives to and sacrificed
everything because they believed so strongly in this vision. These leaders, these men, were a
band of brothers. I remember my Bishop saying with awe how amazing it was to worship behind
the altar with these holy men. To be betrayed by your leaders, your fellow bishops, your
clergy...and by betrayal, I mean mostly, the throwing away of the original foundations, beliefs,
morals, ethics, doctrines, etc. To believe that you were worshiping Jesus in a way that the men
beside you agreed with and then to find them mismanaging money, teaching things contrary to
the doctrine and theology that you came together with, to see drunkenness and sexual
misconduct among those ‘men of God’ is so incredibly sad. And then, when you confront them
with the hope of confession and healing, to be told that you are the one with the problem...well, it
is a big deal. The CEC may be small, and shrinking more every day, but some of the men who
helped to found this church are men of great character... to find that what you felt called to has
morphed into something else entirely different brings great pain. I hope this helps you to
understand the outpouring of grief you see here.” --Ken
Here are what seem to be the charges from the Per Christum blog and elsewhere:
Notes:
- A revision log can be found at the bottom of this document.
(Disclaimer: These appear to be charges of active and inactive clergy and laity in the ICCEC.
However many are, so far, unsubstantiated and speculative at best. The sources were usually
anonymous or were posted under a pseudonym. Both the accused and the accuser will have the
burden of proof for their defense. It is up to each of us to judge the evidence and fulfill the
Biblical mandate of knowing the prophet by his fruit. Additionally, we are to speak the truth in
love, bear the burden of all and judge with great mercy. These are issues that should probably be
discussed with our priests and bishops.)
1. The most serious charge is that there has been so little growth in the ICCEC on a
local, national and international level that God must have removed His blessing
upon the communion. They charge there is no growth because there is no life.
2. A very serious charge is that there is no life because of all illicit and “some” invalid
orders: The actual principal consecrator of Adler was Timothy Michael Barker of the
"International Free Catholic Communion". Barker was himself consecrated by Spruit and
Spruit's wife. Neither Spruit nor Barker can reasonably be recognized as Apostolic or
Christian bishops. Their "apostolic succession" derived from an early branch of the Old
Catholic movement in England but quickly digressed out of Old Catholicism into the
theosophist and the occult. Melton's "Encyclopedia of American Religions" listed Spruit's
"Church of Antioch" among the listings for Gnostic and occult bodies. The CEC was
aware of this as early as spring 1994, as it was a matter of discussion at the National
Convocation in Kansas City. However, it is doubtful that the laity and much of the clergy
had any idea how serious the problem was. Canon Theologian David Zampino
discovered the problem during my own research in seminary in 1997 -- and was ordered
under obedience not to discuss his research. He and his wife were at the point of leaving
the CEC in November of 1997, when the Brazilian Consecrations happened. He decided
-- with the concurrence of a Catholic priest with whom he had been working -- that he
needed to stay and see how things panned out. Former ICCEC Canon Theologian
David Zampino writes, “The 1992 ‘consecration’ of Adler was ‘performed’ by an
individual who was (at the time) a leading occultist/ astrologist in the United States.
(‘Independent Bishops: An International Directory). His consecrator was himself
consecrated by a female occultist. (Melton’s "Encyclopedia of American Religions"). The
persons involved in Adler's consecration were highly suspect, at best. The CEC was well
aware of this fact, as it was a major matter for discussion at the first national convocation
in Kansas City in 1994. When I discovered this research during the summer of 1997, I
was told by my bishop at the time to be silent under ‘holy obedience’. I was at the point of
leaving the CEC in November of 1997 until we received the Brazilian Succession. I will
state categorically, on the basis of my own research and the limited research that the
CEC actually did do prior to the Brazilian Consecration that the Brazilian Consecration
was absolutely necessary. From June of 1992 until November 1997 there was no valid
apostolic succession in the CEC. This means there were no valid ordinations,
consecrations, Eucharist or Confirmations. I was ordained deacon prior to the Brazilian
Consecration yet I recognized my conditional ordination six weeks after the Brazilian
Consecration in order to attest to the validity of my ordination vows and sacraments”
(David Zampino, please forgive my compilation and paraphrase). He continued, “Now,
the CEC faces the very same issue. The Brazilian Succession only works and is valid
when the bishops of the CEC actually keep their promises regarding use of proper form.
This is an issue with which the CEC needs to deal. There is thereby a charge that many
clergy escaped the notice of their bishops. However, in order to be valid, a sacrament
must include proper matter, proper form, and proper intent. ‘Matter’ means the actual
material used for the sacramental rite. For example, the matter used for the sacrament of
Baptism is water. You can't use champagne, fuel oil, or rose petals. The matter for the
sacrament of the Eucharist is wheat bread and grape wine. You can't use Doritos and
Pepsi. The matter for anointing, confirmation, and ordination is oil. You can't use
strawberry jam. This is not being legalistic and pharisaical rather it is following the
prescription of Sacred Scripture and 2000 years of Church Tradition. Proper form means
performing the sacred rite in the proper fashion -- i.e. how such has been received by the
Church. For example, the ‘form’ in baptism requires the words ‘I baptize you in the Name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit’. You can't say ‘Creator, Redeemer,
and Sanctifier’. You can't use ‘Jesus Name’ only. Again, this is not legalism -- it is reality,
just as the President, when he is being inaugurated, says the Oath of Office. If he were to
stand up and recite the words of ‘Itsy Bitsy Spider’ the Oath would not be valid. During
the time of the English Reformation, certain theologians (Cranmer, for instance)
deliberately removed from the Rite of Ordination certain prayers which emphasized the
special nature of the priesthood. He did the same with the text of the Eucharistic prayer.
This is why neither Rome NOR the East recognizes the validity of Anglican ordinations or
Eucharist. This is why the Brazilians insisted on correct ‘form’ when they came to
Maryland in 1997 for the consecration service. This was not to be ‘legalistic’ -- rather it
was to make sure that very real deficiencies were remedied. It was also so the ICCEC
could make the claim to truly be part of the Undivided Church. This is why it grieves me
to no end when CEC bishops discard and set at naught what they have been given, and
go back to using rites which are at best, incomplete. Finally, there is the question of
‘intent’. Does the person exercising the Sacrament have the ‘intent’ to ‘do what the
Church has always done’? Does the person ‘intend’ to legitimately baptize? Does the
priest ‘intend’ to confer the Sacrament of the Eucharist? Does the bishop ‘intend’ to
confer Holy Orders in the manner in which the Church has received them? If the ‘intent’ is
proper, there should be no questions about matter and form -- because the correct matter
and form would have been used. Therefore, when the correct matter and form are NOT
used, it is perfectly legitimate to call ‘intent’ into question.” Another ICCEC priest states,
“I was ordained priest by one of the five bishops who were consecrated by the three
Brazilian prelates who came to Maryland for that purpose in 1997. The Rite used was the
Roman Ordinal -- making the proper and appropriate adjustments for the needs of the
CEC. The specific prayers which separate the Roman Ordinal from the Book of Common
Prayer on the nature of the priesthood were included. Note that the Brazilians are not in
communion with Rome -- yet they find that the language of the Roman Ordinal is
necessary and appropriate in order to convey the proper ‘form’ for the Rite. At the time,
the leadership in the CEC recognized its own deficiencies, and took steps to correct
them. This was an act of great humility. The five bishops consecrated by the Brazilians
were then supposed to convey that consecration to their fellows. To the best of my
knowledge, they did so. The bishops were then supposed to convey the Apostolic
Succession to their priests and deacons. Some bishops were very intentional about this,
while others minimized it greatly. This caused some confusion among the priests and
deacons (and some of the laity) as to why the rite had taken place at all. What the CEC
probably should have done at the time was to prepare a denomination-wide statement as
to what had been done, what was being done, what needed to be done, and why. But
that's water under the bridge at this point. However, the Brazilian bishops expected --
and had every right to expect -- that the leadership in the CEC would continue to follow in
the grace of what they had been given. In some dioceses this has been the case. In other
dioceses, this has NOT been the case. I know of one CEC bishop who has reverted back
to the ordination service in the BCP. I know of another CEC bishop who ordered his
archdeacon -- under pain of obedience -- to re-write the service -- taking out all of the
‘blood and guts’ (the sacrifice language relating to the nature of the priesthood). This is
why, in the CEC today; there is a wide range from ‘definitely validly ordained’ to
‘questionable validity’ to ‘doubtful validity’ to ‘definitely NOT validly ordained’.”
3. There is the issue of the CEC being ex-communicated by the Brazilian Apostolic
Catholic Church and what that exactly entails. Many want an explanation on this
and some are wondering if it can be resolved. The ICCEC has supposedly been
excommunicated by the ICAB. Some suspect that it is mostly a territorial dispute brought
about by the reception of the parish in Recife, Brazil. It is reported that the ICAB itself
has been trying to branch out into the US, with limited success, and the ICAN seems to
be their chosen organization and not the ICCEC. Supposedly the ICCEC had an
agreement with Brazil, upon which the Brazilian Consecration was contingent. The
agreement said, essentially, that in CEC ordinations of priests and in CEC consecrations
of bishops, specific ordination rites would be used, in order to perpetuate the authentic
Catholic line of Apostolic Succession. The ICCEC agreed to do so. However, it is
reported that some dioceses in the ICCEC have not kept their promise. This has been a
major part of the problem.
4. Many charge that Adler has jettisoned the CEC from its original mission: “The
original vision of the CEC was so ‘right on’...the convergence of the three streams. How
wonderful to be able to worship in the fullness of the Holy Spirit, have true Bible reading
and sermons that teach biblical principles, all within the framework of Liturgy. However,
over the past several years, the top leaders within the Communion have altered the
vision. The CEC, in many diocese, has reverted back to a Pentecostal church and the
leaders are actually beginning to remove those things which made the church liturgical,
such as vestments, the Creed, the Confession, dialog with other denominations and
many other things that the ICCEC.Org website still maintains as the doctrine of the
church. Part of the problem is that the doctrine is uncertain. No one, from the
Archbishops down, truly knows what the CEC believes. That's not too uncommon for a
new communion, but the CEC has been around since 1992...long enough for there to be
consensus about theology and doctrine. There is also great concern that the leaders
have become involved in the Jesus as Lover teachings that originated out of Kansas City.
And that seems to be all that has been preached for the past three years. That is
problematic. The CEC seems to be imploding. Several bishops were deposed. Several
more have recently resigned. Many parishes have left the communion...and more will
soon follow. The shaking in the church is tremendous right now. And depending which
diocese you are worshiping in, you may not be seeing any of this. Another part of the
problem...there is no consistency in teaching or theology from diocese to diocese. I
believe that many clergy (priest/deacons) in the CEC are Men of God and may not be
aware of all that is transpiring. However, those at the top are very well aware of the
problems going on. I would encourage you to wait to join. Things may settle down and
changes may take place. However, I doubt it seriously. Most of the good men in
leadership have left and those still remaining are taking this communion down a very
strange and rocky path. Just pray for the church and wait to see how things turn out. I
know that, unless the leadership currently in place steps down, I will never be a member
of the CEC again.” (Thanks Bridgette) Another member wrote, “The CEC was originally
supposed to be a 'bridge' community... I feel betrayed. I am still trying to journey to the
truth of the early church, where ever that leads. The local parish I am connected to is still
trying to understand where they go next...Frankly that is the question we would like
answered by House of Bishops. At what point did they decide that money and power was
more important than the journey toward God in the original vision? They have taken all I
have to give and have left me with nothing!”
5. Others have suggested Patriarch Adler may have both sexual and financial
indiscretions for which the HOB is seeking to keep under wraps. It is possibly this
non-disclosure that has so many angry and has divided the house. They want a full
disclosure of all the issues concerning the Howard/ Constantino fiasco, the audit of the
Patriarch and the IDA and to have a full explanation since excommunicating a bishop, the
resigning of other bishops and even more appalling, the calling for the resignation of the
CEC founder by one of the two most senior bishops, Bishop Kenneth Myers, are no small
matters. Bishop Ken has issued an additional letter as has Bishop Painter calling for the
Patriarch to step down- not just to take a sabbatical, but to step down. (For more
information see Singing Claymore's post) It is alleged that Bishop Hines has also asked
for Adler to step aside, whether that means to resign as Patriarch or to take a sabbatical,
it remains unclear. It is also alleged that Adler is addicted to alcohol and/ or pain
medication.
[Partial Refutation] It was initially reported that Bishop Lipka “asked for Adler to step
aside”. The Dean of Bp. Lipka's Cathedral contacted Ken Follis sometime after the initial
allegation was made, to refute the claim, stateing: “Bishop Lipka has not made such a
request in regards to Abp. Adler.”
[Partial Confirmation] “Bishop Costantino told me directly in July of 2005 that it was
believed by him and others that then Bishop Howard had misappropriated and or
embezzled a huge amount of money from the IDA. That he--Costantino--had loaned a
large sum of money to bail Howard out of a prior crisis and Adler had guaranteed the
payment, and that Howard had defaulted and the national church was therefore repaying
the debt to him. That Howard had "hit on" numerous churches within his province for
loans that were not being repaid. He said the Patriarch's Council was going to demand a
forensic audit of the IDA and if Howard refused, he would be deposed and Bp Jones
made Abp of the Southeast Province. (All this came true a few months later.) He also
said that the Patriarch was addicted to controlled substances which he was illegally
obtaining and would be asked to go into rehab and take a sabbatical for a year and Sly
would serve as Interim Primate. [This has not come true, but may explain the Patriarch's
alleged behavior and the actions herein described of other bishops.]” (Verified source,
wishes to remain anonymous.)
6. Others have charged Adler with misguided leadership, improper conduct and
overemphasis on the charismatic stream of the Convergence Movement and his
"Mike Bickle/ IHOP" adaptation for the mission of the CEC in place of the
Convergence Movement. Adler's continued teaching of the Solomon Canticle's
"Jesus as Lover" has contributed to dissent in his local parish. However, one guest
wrote, "I've listened to most of the Patriarch's sermons for the past year or so, and can
unequivocally say that he's preached on lots of topics and different scriptures. Saying that
he's constantly and exclusively preaching on the Song of Solomon is just not true. If
you're interested in truth, perhaps someone could take the time to document how many
sermons he's preached and in how many he mentions the Song of Solomon so you have
facts rather than continually repeat this misnomer."
- Also, In Manila many were upset that Alder supposedly didn't have the other bishops
speak but centered the limelight on himself and sought to downplay the Catholic, liturgical
stream of the CEC by wearing blue jeans and a leather jacket. Some have suggested he
believes that “making visible a void” through vestments no longer applies.
[Refutation] Regarding Apparel: While Archbishop Adler did wear jeans and leather
jacket during the Plenary sessions (casual worship/teaching sessions), both eyewitness
statements and photos of all three evening services confirm that he did indeed wear
vestments for both the homily and the Divine Liturgy. Photos can be found at
Kenneth Tanner's blog and Fr. Jack Lumanog's manila photo album.
7. It is reported, “Perhaps the most tragic indicator of Adler’s delusional thinking is
the following issue which has been confirmed by three sources: Patriarch Adler
has told numerous individuals of a revelation the Lord has given him. Supposedly
God has shown him that his wife, Betty, is going to die and that an ICCEC priest in
his diocese is going to die as well. He has stated that God has supposedly
instructed him to marry the priest’s wife when this occurs. He knows which priest
and he carries a picture of his future wife in his wallet for which he has shown
several individuals. One former ICCEC priest alleges that God has shown Adler
the home he is to buy and live in as well.”
8. Adler is charged with teaching an extreme view of Christian Bridal Mysticism,
plagiarizing and disregarding the Lectionary: Adler has been preaching on Christian
Bridal Mysticism for several years causing some to question his theology and/ or mental
stability. The "Song of Solomon" teaching (which seems to have originated in Kansas
City) has reportedly represented the majority of what has been preached in many areas.
Some have stated that whenever such an unbalance in teaching and preaching occurs,
typically correction is necessary. It appears as an exaggeration of a questionable
teaching. The issue of Adler continually preaching on the Song of Solomon is another
distressing reminder of bishops who claim to be catholic but will not submit to the Sunday
lectionary in their preaching. In the early days of the ICCEC, the Sunday lectionary was
part of the prayer of the church and fostered preaching the whole council of God and not
the agenda of the individual bishop. Bishops and priests who won't submit to this policy
with some occasional exceptions further exemplify an independent ego spirit that
characterizes much of the CEC dilemma. The historic churches pray the prayer of the
church by submitting to the lectionary and not to their own agendas. Furthermore, some
accuse Adler of taking credit for these teachings on the Song of Solomon and even the
Prophesy of the Tsunami comes from Bishop Jones of Selma, Alabama. Although Adler
mentions Jones in his plenary addresses, he takes credit that the words came to him and
hence were "brought forth to the Communion from him."
(http://kennethtanner.typepad.com/signsofreconciliation/files/FirstPlenaryS
ession.doc and
http://kennethtanner.typepad.com/signsofre...es/SecondPlenar
ySession.doc) Every Sunday, Bishop Jones is reportedly instructed to record his
sermons on the Song of Solomon, (which by the way he has been teaching for almost
four years each Sunday as well) and immediately mail to Adler who then preached them
in San Clemente and to the Communion.
9. The charge of the San Clemente “New Rome” Vision: The Patriarch’s account of his
trip to Rome can be found here and here. These are transcripts of Thursday's and
Friday's morning informal sessions during the 2004 Convocation in Manila.
(http://kennethtanner.typepad.com/signsofreconciliation/files/FirstPlenaryS
ession.doc
http://kennethtanner.typepad.com/signsofre...es/SecondPlenar
ySession.doc) It is a vision of Christ, kneeling on the dirty floor of a garden, eternally
praying that men--to whom he'd granted free will--would turn their wills to His Father's.
There was nothing said about keys, nothing that would suggest some granting of
authority. There was the Patriarch’s statement that someone’s speculation, not his own
per se, was there. He said, “Immediately, someone said, ‘I know what’s going to happen.
The mantle of God’s authority is going to pass from Rome to San Clemente, because that
church you’re going to is actually called San Clemente.’ And then there were these
visions the people had of golden scepters being handed and authority passed. There was
just a lot of room to speculate.” Many are requesting Adler to state explicitly if he
himself thinks he received a scepter, keys, authority or a mantle before, during or
after kissing the ground below St Peter’s altar? There are emphatic statements in
Adler’s sermons accusing many at the Vatican with Pharisee-ism. Based on his first
message, his experience there inspired him to begin to downplay the original mandate of
the ICCEC to “make visible a void” through vestments, sacraments and sacramental
items. In his sermon, he states,” It’s very easy to pick up on the spirit over the city of
Rome, especially at the Vatican. This is the city where people are crazy and mad for
power, authority and control...They all kneel and kiss the Pope’s ring and say, ‘Yes, Your
Holiness,’ then they go on and do what they want to do...You can only get so close, and
the tour guides are going through, and the power hungry men were strutting around like
four-star generals, pushing people out of their way because they were so important. ..I
had a sense of an old fisherman (referring to St. Peter). He was so embarrassed that we
were there. He was so embarrassed by what the Church had become. We just sensed
his overwhelming shame. It was so hard for him to see what the Church had become.”
The reported consensus of those who heard him, understand him to say, “Jesus and St
Peter are not happy with the Roman Catholic Church just as Jesus was not pleased with
the Jews in the Temple who had turned His house into a den of thieves.” That house
was replaced in 33 AD and destroyed in 70 AD. Likewise the implication was in some
people’s minds that the Cathedral of Rome was or is to be replaced by the Cathedral of
San Clemente. Thus, the ICCEC would replace the Roman Catholic Church. According
to the words of Adler in Manila, Bishop Lipka (a former Roman Catholic priest who
forsook his vows to the Vatican) is the one who prophesied to Adler to go meet the Lord
face- to- face at St Clemente’s parish in Rome. He was to go to St Peter’s Basilica and
kiss the crypt of St Peter at which time the revelation would be complete. What the full
revelation was is forthcoming apparently. Many in the ICCEC are asking for a full
detailed account of what Alder and the HOB believe in this regard. Lipka told Adler that
he would see more than Moses saw. Some suspect Adler to think of himself as a new
Moses leading Protestant and Catholics into the new spiritual Promise Land; thus why he
fasted 80 days rather than only 40 days as Moses. Some have accused the Patriarch of
becoming increasingly a megalomaniac. One person’s observed, “The Patriarch endured
a difficult time during this period of which he alludes to in his remarks in Manila as well.
But like an earlier poster said everything that he spoke of always centered on ‘I and Me’
and what God had shown him personally. Even in the comments of the ‘white martyrs’ he
speaks only of the losses to him personally, yet there were many in the CEC who also
lost faithful, God fearing and loving family members who would have to be included in
that word as well.” Other speculations and innuendos throughout the ICCEC have been
that Adler had been spiritually given the keys in the basement of St. Peter's. Mike
Davidson is reported to have detailed Adler's vision in Rome indicating there was of a
"transfer of authority" and that somehow San Clemente was the "New Rome". Davidson's
description is understood to be anti-Catholic in the extreme. One person wrote, “Maybe
Davidson misunderstood what Adler said or meant -- but in many places, the
misunderstanding is what is being held up as accurate.” Supposedly Adler has told the
story in radically different ways to different people and congregations. There are
reportedly numerous accounts from reputable sources within the CEC of what Adler was
sharing. This led some to suspect that he was delusional attributing it to his time of
extreme trial with the recent tragic deaths of his stepdaughter, grandson, and unborn
granddaughter in an automobile accident. The Patriarch had not stepped down or taken
a sabbatical during this time of trial and continued to lead the movement. This is a fault
aimed by some at the HOB although he does indeed bear responsibility for what has thus
transpired. There is a report that Adler had suffered a fall in California and suffered head
trauma and a broken arm. Certainly this could have led to delusional thinking. A full
medical and psychological report is requested by some in the ICCEC. Some suspect that
subsequent medications have also attributed to his irrational behavior.
10.Supposedly Bishop Lipka is also reported to have prophesied nearly ten years ago
that the Rock of Rome would split and the Vatican would sit in San Clemente. This
coupled with a reported vision given to Adler and his subsequent interpretation that
somehow Jesus had placed a mantle on Patriarch Adler which would replace the Petrine
See has caused some to question Adler's mental state. Perhaps Lipka's prophesy and
Adler's full disclosure and his own interpretation of the revelations of the vision in print
would bring clarity.
11.There are numerous charges of charismatic and liturgical abuses by clergy and
laity: They also allege that the charismatic gifts are abundantly abused throughout the
communion and that “Giddiness is equated to Godliness." Specifically the Prophetic
ministry has been abused where unchecked prophets speak thinking, “If I have
envisioned it mentally it most certainly is the word of God!” Some have alleged there are
many self-appointed "prophets" in the ICCEC. One former CEC Canon priest stated,
“Certainly the charismatic ‘stream’ was beginning to be given a more prominent place
than the evangelical and certainly more than the liturgical. I believe the liturgical became
easier to dismiss as ‘law-like’ and ‘unyielding’ and at times it found itself in some conflict
with the charismatic in the eyes of the leadership. Understand, I feel there is no conflict
between the two (liturgy and charismatic) and certainly no conflict between all three
(including the evangelical) but let's face it, it is the charismatic that is alleged to bring
‘freedom’ and ‘release’ while the liturgical is easier to be thought of as ‘rigid’ and ‘binding’.
When the CEC, at least in my Diocese, was drifting into what was called the ‘tsunami’ as
well as the overkill teachings on the Song of Solomon it seemed that the Liturgical aspect
of our worship was deemed as ‘in the way’ of what was apparently recognized as a new
move of God. The creed, the Prayers of the People, a full consecration of the Eucharist,
the confession of sin and the absolution became things that were removed or skirted
altogether in the service, while time for personal prophetic words, visions, and one hour
to hour and a half sermons based on ‘The Song of Solomon’ took precedence. This
continued in our Diocese for three years and probably still goes on there today. The
reality was this: all we became in our services were ‘vested charismatic’. I think that is
what you hear in Adler's words in Manila in a roundabout way. The charismatic seemed
more exciting, and let's face it with the walls of the CEC crumbling around him;
excitement would certainly have been viewed as better than form.” Another priest noted,
“Truth is- so much was going on and since so little accountability was required about who
prophesied what, who got and gave what word or vision, when it was given, etc., all the
words and visions ‘just kept on coming’ and no one stepped back and questioned the
validity of all these so called ‘God said’ things, or if they did, like myself and many others,
they were dismissed and labeled as trouble makers, in-grates, disloyal, etc. So many just
shut up and in many cases they left.” One CEC priest [now former] states, “I believe that we
worship an all powerful God who can interrupt His own liturgy and we do not worship
liturgy.” While many agree God could, apparently many in the ICCEC believe that far too
many priests have interpreted their own whims with God’s will. They have reported that
they were distracted from the Christo-centric nature of the liturgy where Christ meets
them as All-sufficient in the Sacrament of Eucharist. They report sensing that, although
the priest stands in persona Christi, some of the ICCEC priests believe that the
Sacrament of the Priesthood is equal or superior to the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
12.The Tsunami Prophesy and the ensuing Prophetic frenzy in the ICCEC is assailed
as a contributor to the ICCEC turmoil: In late 2003, Prophet/ Bishop Chuck Jones
prophesied of a Tsunami coming. Patriarch Adler spoke of this in the fall of 2004 at the
Manila Convocation. In Dec. 2004, a Great Tsunami hit South Asia which some believed
was a fulfillment of the prophecy. This event confirmed the ICCEC and Adler and Jones
in the minds of some. Although they both spoke in spiritual terms, a common
understanding among those in the Charismatic, Latter Rain, and Personal Prophesy
movements is this: “First the natural, then the spiritual” (a loose rendering of 1 Cor.
15:46). To some ICCEC members, mainly those from the Charismatic stream, this event
granted credence to the ICCEC and Patriarch Adler. It appears to have catapulted the
ICCEC into a “prophetic frenzy” which had been stirring for some years prior. One
ICCEC priest wrote, “In regard to the ‘tsunami’, I think Bishop Jones was right, a ‘tsunami’
was coming, but it was not the CEC anointing impacting the earth that he and some of
the Bishops had assumed with some degree of arrogance. Rather it is the ‘great storm’
that has now hit the CEC and is blowing it to smithereens.” Another member stated, “I
just finished reading Bishop Adler's address at the 2004 Convocation, and I have come to
some important conclusions. My own bishop has been quoting this tsunami ‘word’ at
length, but I'd never read the original prophecy”. Adler said, “At the end of last year
(2003), Bp. Chuck Jones had a vision of a tidal wave hitting the earth. In his vision, the
Lord said to Him, ‘It is time for a tsunami anointing.’ He said that a tsunami anointing is
like a tsunami wave: it changes the landscape dramatically and permanently, and is
spoken of in the future as an important part of the people’s history--it affects the people
for generations and they are forever associated with this event. People who are not
warned of tsunamis and prepared for one can be destroyed." This person continued, “I
am struck by how right this word is, but not in the way that Adler (or my bishop) thought.
Indeed a tidal wave/storm has hit the CEC, changing the landscape dramatically and
permanently. In fact, it is desiccating it, dispersing people everywhere throughout our
communion.” “It is an important part of the people's history ...’ Indeed it is! We are living
through an amazing, devastating, yet hopeful time in the CEC. I believe that the CEC as
we know it is no more. And those of us who were fortunate enough to have been a part of
its history have been blessed and at the same time disillusioned by it. Waves displace
people. Sometimes they destroy them. Let's not allow ourselves to be destroyed! Our
church may be gone very soon. But if this tidal wave is from the Lord, it must be for our
good. I believe the Lord is calling us all home to Rome... the Catholic Church has the
authority that we so desperately need! It's not a perfect place; it's filled with imperfect
people, as the recent scandals in the Catholic Church will attest. But at least we can
know that it was founded by our own precious Jesus -- "You are PETER, and upon this
rock I will build my church." If we've learned nothing else from all this, I think we at least
can agree that a solid, Christ-ordained authority is what is desperately needed. The fact
is there's no other place that we can put our trust. Bishop Adler said a tsunami "affects
the people for generations and they are forever associated with this event." I for one am
ready to be forever associated with this event. I am choosing to embrace it, and allow
myself to ride this wave to the one place I believe Jesus has set apart for us: The Rock
which stands, firm amidst the waves ...I'm going home.”
13.There is the charge by the SC Diocese that certain of the Patriarch’s behaviors
have directly led to a breakdown of trust in the House of Bishops and the
fragmentation of the unity of the C.E.C.: It is reported that Bishop Painter and Bishop
Ken Myers and his whole diocese have asked for the resignation of Bishop Adler. There
are reasons known only to them while they do state, "We believe that certain of the
Patriarch’s behaviors have directly led to a breakdown of trust in the House of Bishops
and the fragmentation of the unity of the C.E.C.". An entire Diocese has written a letter to
the Patriarch, standing behind their Bishop, asking for truth, repentance and change, as
well as asking the Patriarch to step down. These clergy are standing together, united,
and having discussed the situations with their Bishop and having their voices heard and
represented by their Bishop, are standing with him. Many are asking for a specification of
the nature of the allegations against the Patriarch. Bishops have already told their clergy
men the specifics. “Additionally some lay persons have been made aware of the reported
incident. The bishop has sent an additional letter as has Bp. Painter calling for the
Patriarch to step down and not to take a sabbatical. They reportedly can no longer trust
him. (Their letters have been posted either on this or the Per Christum site)
14.The Bishop’s Council is accused of fundamental dishonesty having lied about not
having received Bishop Ken Myer’s letter requesting the Patriarch to resign: At the
Thursday, June 22nd meeting, the question was asked directly if anyone in leadership
had written a letter calling for the Patriarch to step down. The answer "no" was given.
Such a letter had been written and submitted -- and the Patriarch's Council reportedly
knew this and lied. Additionally, no one has answered one ICCEC member’s questions,
“Was Adler asked at the meeting on the 22nd if anyone had made a formal, written
request for his resignation? If so, what was his answer? “
15.Others accuse the Patriarch of abusing liturgical norms set by the ICCEC. He is
reported to have walked out during Divine Liturgy at the Cathedral, allowing for the
constant disregard for the Sacraments and the altar by allowing the untrained youth of his
congregation to “perform” the liturgy and to often disregard appropriate vestments.
(Some admit it is no big problem except if you are worshiping God).
16.A few have assessed that the IDA fiasco lead to the breakdown of the trust in the
ICCEC. There is a charge that the IDA had been mismanaged by the director prior to
Howard but it was Howard and a four year long allegation against him of a
mismanagement of funds which went uninvestigated which began the downfall of trust.
Bishop Constantino and Bishop Howard quarreled over the money causing much of the
controversy. It appears Bishop Adler and Bishop Howard may have mismanaged funds
that contributed to the controversy. There was a reported cover-up and Bishop Howard
was confronted and left the CEC and now "pastors" The Chapel at Jacksonville. Bishop
Adler is reportedly being audited. During this time many clergy exited the CEC. Last year,
Bishop Constantino passed away. It is reported that Archbishop Howard was never
excommunicated. It was reported by one priest that finally when the HOB discovered the
full magnitude of the financial problems of the IDA, Abp. Howard was called to account.
He refused. Then, the HOB, recognizing a spiritual problem and trying to avoid the
embarrassment of an ecclesiastical trial, offered Abp. Howard a paid sabbatical and
recommended counseling. Instead, he walked out of the meeting and subsequently
resigned. The HOB initiated an audit of what was left of the IDA, and as far as I know it is
ongoing and expected to take a couple of years. The IDA kept terrible records, and it was
involved in the transfer of funds across numerous borders. The full account may never be
known. The HOB could press legal charges to recover the money, but the expense of
going to trial would not be worth the amount of money that could be recovered. He
additionally reports that Abp Adler himself has not been audited. He stated that the audit
of the IDA has shown that the ICCEC home office in San Clemente was not involved in
the mismanagement of the IDA. This was the main fear, as that would have put the
entire communion at legal risk. Abp Adler has reportedly owned up to the leadership
failures that allowed this mismanagement to occur, and the HOB has been trying to
implement a new financial infrastructure that will prevent such problems in the future.”
However, there is a report that, last September; a forensic audit of the IDA was ordered
by the HOB. At last word, the audit has been canceled and the initial audit report has not
been disclosed to the contributors.
17.There is the charge of an Ecclesiastical Pyramid Scheme: There is a charge that the
ICCEC requirement for clergy, and perhaps laity, to tithe a full 10% is an evangelical
legalistic trapping not supported by the New Testament, the Fathers nor the Eastern
Orthodox or the Roman Catholic Church. Some believe this unwittingly created an
ecclesiastical pyramid scheme when it was conducted in a modern hierarchical structure
like the ICCEC. They allege that ‘Tithing’ was a legalistic injunction of the Old Covenant
meant for the Jews to keep the very costly temple sacrifices coming. Regardless how
some believe, others have objected to being subjected to a practice that no church in the
East or West has traditionally held to in 2000 years of its existence.
[Control issues abound--at Resurrection in Asheville, NC, fellow clergy must submit all
issues of changing jobs, refinancing their homes, etc. to the rector's council, which then
becomes a type of "open confession" by virtual necessity to reveal the facts necessary to
decide such issues. Refusal leads to discipline and charges of rebellion. No clergy can
take a sabbatical or just retire in the SEP, or step aside for a season, or engage in any
significant unapproved ministry, without being accused of vow breaking, rebellion, and
incurring possible discipline. This writer has personally witnessed such events. ]
18.Many, for years, have charged that the ICCEC is too top- heavy and unbalanced:
One alleged that the ICCEC was free and loose with titles, ordinations, and ecclesiastical
rank. They believe it smacks of sophomoric presumption. It seems as though 80% of the
CEC are ordained.
19.One other issue reportedly is the ordination of clergy who have not completed
seminary, who are fast-tracked through and many of these seem to be family
members of other clergy and/or bishops. There seems to be much pain and hurt from
clergy about this problem.
20.There is a concern that there no mandatory psychological evaluations for all
clergy: Besides not having years of training and the benefit of an intimate knowledge by
their ordaining presbytery, some bishops and clergy are not required to undergo
psychological evaluations as required with most denominations. These tests may save
folks much of the heartache that is being experienced now.
21.There is the charge that the clergy have a severe lack of seminary education. One
priest noted, “In the Roman Church, even deacons require a 4-year seminary course,
with direct oversight by the diocesan bishop clergy. Those who do have a legitimate
academic background have, in many cases, been isolated, mocked, and blackballed.”
Some have begun to believe the CEC only exists to promote the egos and "dreams-of-
priesthood" of its clergy.
22.There have been many who expressed concern over the years for a lack of unity in
doctrine and purpose. The vagueness of the CEC mission, the lack of clarity on what
are the dogmas, doctrines and acceptable kerygma and then the failure to maintain the
ancient rubrics of the Divine Liturgy have all contributed to the unraveling.
23.Some may assess the reason for Bishops Fick, Moates, Miles, Smith, Howard,
Painter and Zampino leaving is to do with the overall issues facing the ICCEC:
there is no common catechism, liturgy or Sacraments, but mostly, from the general
leadership, there is no accountability, community, nor communication.
24.One ICCEC priest stated that the problem of the CEC is that it is not a part of the
Magisterium and has none of its own.
25.Many charged that there is no accountability of Bishops: A charter member of the
ICCEC wrote, “Part of the CEC problem is that the bishops have minimal accountability in
all areas. There are no vestries or any way to buffer their power. I have seen the abuse of
this power. Clergy are being ordained at the whim of a bishop with no theological training.
Family members are placed in prominent positions without regard to qualifications. The
list goes on and on. The CEC needs to clean up its act. The bishops need to become
humble and accountable and then maybe this movement can remain a witness to the
Gospel.” Many are asking for genuine accountability of the leaders--especially Bishops,
Priests and Deacons taking into account that we are all vulnerable to deception and
"falling" and it is genuine accountability, among other things, that keeps this in check.
This includes openness, honesty, transparency, integrity. They argue there is not a
workable “Checks and Balances”: The ICCEC has no way of balancing any abuse of
power and some have levied a charge of "unbridled power" against the bishops
contrasting that a Roman Catholic bishop does not have the ability to ordain who he will
without working within the process. They charge that an ICCEC bishop, in many ways,
has less "checks and balances" than a bishop in any other church and that is why,
despite its short tenure, it has become subject to so much corruption. There are charges
of nepotism against many clergy across the ICCEC. Some are concerned with the many
sons serving directly under their fathers and others charge Bishop Bates, bishop of the
Diocese of the Northeast, specifically, having placed his wife in a paid prominent position
in his church and his son in law in a prominent staff position. They charge that the
situation in the northeast is symptomatic of the problem of a church that has bishops who
have complete power. The facts are that Bishop Bates has placed family members
including his wife in key positions in the diocese. This is called nepotism and is
universally regarded as an unethical practice. It is reported that the Bates has the power
to ordain whoever he wants whenever he wants and make seminary obligations optional.
The fact is that no other reputable church or denomination has this type of despotic
episcopacy. The fact is this type of church government will inevitably lead to abuse of
power with the privileged family and friends enjoying the benefits of the bishop’s power.
There will always be those on the inside and those on the outside. To recapitulate,
Bishop Bates, has chosen a good man for dean yet is theologically untrained and
incompetent and is about to ordain another allowing him to entirely skip any seminary
training. He places his family in important diocesan positions while others who have
completed their seminary program go unnoticed. They charge that there is so much
power invested in the bishop’s office that it is inevitable that nepotism arise, and
ordinations for some with having to complete seminary will occur. Historical
denominations have learned the danger of placing family members in prominent
positions. They have forbid it in order to prevent the obvious accusations of coffer
stocking and nepotism. One of Bishop Bate’s priest responded, “I serve the Bishop unto
to the Lord, a biblical injunction, and try not to judge and weigh his imperfections in my
decisions to do so. I know who I aim to please. The Bishop is a man, and I am a servant
of the Lord. I take my vows very seriously. I memorized them; I didn't read them when I
was ordained. I have been at the Bishop's church for about 13 years. I have seen a lot. I
finished seminary and testing - which took over nine years for me. I am still bi-vocational.
I am not on staff nor do I get paid. I get no benefits, of money or honor, only the privilege
to serve. I am not seeking a position, though I always desire to serve the Lord more, and
want fulfillment just like everybody else. I was bypassed for ordination many times. I
have not been hired, even though there has been potentiality for it. I am not holding my
breath. I have a job and I do not despise the life of the common man. I have seen trained
men who had seminary credentials from outside the CEC come into positions and be
ordained, ahead of myself and others. I've also seen them fail, or leave, or be disciplined
for unfaithfulness and misconduct. I've seen the Bishop make mistakes and admit them.
He has been generous, gracious and merciful to a fault. He has been accused and he
has been audited, and the congregation has stayed with him and found no fault. I'm sure
there were those who did not ‘approve’ of my being ordained. I've had the tendency to
judge and disrespect others as well for which I've had to repent.” Another ICCEC member
writes,” The bishop’s councils as well as his rector’s councils consist of those he has
hand picked. Of course they are going to approve his choices. Do you think he would
appoint anyone to these positions that would represent a challenge? That is precisely the
problem! There is no way to balance the bishops ability to ordain whoever he wants
(seminary or no seminary) and hire whoever he wants, family members or otherwise.
This is what leads to corruption and many of the current problems in this church. This
problem is only exacerbated by those (‘Yes’ men) who continue to show unconditional
loyalty without challenging this system that has led to this corruption.”
26. Others have voiced concern over ICCEC supporting contraception when the
Church throughout history has spoken emphatically against it.
27.Some charged that the high rate of divorces among clergy and laity has
scandalized the church: Apparently there are many divorces represented at all levels
of leadership and the laity in the ICCEC.
28.Some charged that the ICCEC was scandalized by sanctioning and parading high
profile divorcees Malcolm Smith and Randall Terry: Bishop Malcolm Smith divorced a
second time and was remarried in the ICCEC and was "demoted" to acting as a priest
only. He later left the ICCEC and is operating a retreat center (CHS) in Bandera, Texas.
One person wrote, “In researching the history of the CEC in recent weeks I learned that
Malcolm Smith had also resigned. I have admired him for years, even back when I was in
ECUSA, and was so comforted to know that he was in the CEC when I joined. Now I am
disappointed to hear that he left, apparently some time ago. I don't mean to dredge up
the past, nor do I wish to detract from the current issues at hand, but I'm beginning to see
a pattern here and wondered if anyone could give me this piece of the puzzle.” One
former CEC member answered, “Former bishop Malcolm Smith, popularly known for his
early Charismatic Renewal ministry, introduced me to the CEC 12 years ago. It was a
glorious moment to me for which I will forever be grateful. However he was removed from
the episcopacy when he stated he wanted to remarry a third time after his second
divorce. The CEC House of Bishops discerned he could remarry in the CEC, remain a
communicant, perform sacerdotal ministry as a priest in the CEC but would have to stop
functioning as an Auxiliary Bishop (whatever that meant, he was likely unsure himself). In
the end, he left the CEC and has a small following here in Texas where he holds retreats
featuring pop psychological pep talks while wearing vestments. It seems this is the route
the CEC, as a whole, took. Malcolm Smith should rejoin the CEC. He'd be right at home
for what it has become.” Randall Terry reportedly divorced his wife of 19 years against
her wishes, was disciplined by his congregation for several inappropriate relationships
and is reported to have misled donors. He remarried just months later and was received
into the ICCEC. He is now Roman Catholic. For some outside the ICCEC, their
reception indicated a serious lack of spiritual fortitude on behalf of the ICCEC and some
suspected their popularity had something to do with a blatant disregard for the Sacrament
of Marriage.
29.Some have charged that some clergy have become hirelings and not shepherds:
They charge that they are not living up to their responsibility of protecting the flock: The
bishops are responsible for protection of the flock. They are chiefly responsible for
spiritual fatherhood over their clergy. This has broken down in the CEC. The bishops
have made it a point to surround themselves only with those that have something to offer
them, be it wealth, or a large church, an established ministry or some other specific
benefit that would give that bishop more power. They charge that some do not provide
for their clergy. They have obviously offered something to the men who are their clergy in
reward for their fealty, and those men, due to their need to find identity through their
ordination, have indeed remained in "obedience" regardless of the abuse that then
ensues. The current crisis is evidence of that "closed" circle mentality that was so much a
part of ECUSA and many other denominations. It is called "the struggle for power" plain
and simple. All the while the men serving under them - not in the inner circle - continue to
suffer. Reportedly several clergy who have been or are near bankruptcy due to various
predicaments mainly outside their control, have been largely ignored by their bishop, so
that the bishop does not have to invest any of his funds in something that carries no
guarantee of return to the bishop. This happens while men in lower orders scramble to
dig into their funds (some of which are meager at best) to help out a brother whom the
bishop has - by his inaction - relegated to unimportance. This is not only wrong, it is un-
Christian. Why some of the clergy stay is unfathomable since they receive nothing other
than recognition from their bishop (if the above criteria is met), or to strive toward
recognition. This is also why the CEC in North America is not growing, but losing
congregations and people. The head of the CEC is the chief instigator of these policies
and has set his men up for this crisis to occur. When you and you bishops live in million
dollar houses with expensive automobiles and furnishings; with the fine cigars and scotch
and your men are struggling to build churches and work for the kingdom with little or no
help from the diocesan, it is bound to start to crumble. The demons have a field day with
this type of abuse of power - going right to the top. It is an example of the church simply
acting like corporate America.
30.Some charged that some clergy have become immoral: It is reported that some
clergy in the CEC have acted in ways that draw great question about their morals, values,
ethics, and theology and belief systems. It is alleged that some who have taken vows
have broken those vows in a variety of ways with alcohol abuse, sexual improprieties,
financial illegalities and other ungodly behaviors.
31.Many charged that the events of the Manila Int'l CEC Convocation of 2004 signaled
the demise of the Communion: Some stated they viewed many drunken priests and
deacons which is a certain violation of Paul's criterion for the presbuteros/ episcopos/
diakonos. An eight year member of the ICCEC stated,” I attended the Convocation in
Manila. I witnessed drunken clergy, a complete disregard for the liturgy and the altar and
other things that made me ashamed at our leadership.” Another attendee wrote, “I
witnessed several drunken clergy and youth pastors who acted very inappropriately on
account of their drunkenness. There were intoxicated youth, and, although this did disturb
me, it did not bother me as much as the inappropriate behavior of the clergy. We were at
a church convocation ...seeing these things in the Philippines just confused me more and
angered me!” One person even charged Adler with drunkenness at the Convocation.
32. It is reported that some bishops have undeservedly slandered, blacklisted and
lambasted clergy who have exited for other communions.
[\QUOTE]

InOtherWords - August 17, 2006 03:41 PM (GMT)
Continued
[QUOTE]
33.There is the charge that canons were not followed and that some have been
dismissed without due process. One discussion participant posts: “Recently I came to
know of a case of a deacon suspended unfairly and without due process. In addition, he
had no means of appealing the decision. I understand that this unfortunate reality of
clergy who are deposed/suspended without due process is all to common and is one of
the great travesties of our church. Even Roman Catholic priests that are accused of child
abuse have fair due process. Sadly, this is not the case in the CEC.”
Bishop Zampino's Case is also a testament to this point. Canon Law specifically spells
out how charges are supposed to be addressed, yet not a single one of these laws was
followed. [Canon Law Quotes and Expansion on the Zampino case forthcoming]
34.There is the charge of undue praise to the bishops illustrated by misrepresenting
the origins of Laudate: Several individuals, like the former Dean of the South Central
Diocese cathedral, as well as Fr. Ed Shiell of Jacksonville, Dcn. Bret Crompton of New
York, Steve House of California, and Cn. Marc Vincent of Alabama, were front-and-center
in the birth of the the fledgling youth movement that is still gasping for air in the CEC.
This group was collectively known as the “Laudate National Leadership Team” (LNLT).
The movement climaxed in 2002, at the “Gathering Of Champions” (GOC) event that was
held in Selma, AL. They named the movement Laudate to honor Abp. Alder and San
Clemente's youth group who had previously taken on the name “Laudate” (Latin,
Imperative Form, meaning Praise Him!). Nothing was ever done on a large scale out of
San Clemente with the youth until the Laudate National Leadership Team entered the
equation. Fr. Jay, on the LaudateNation forum says:
“LAUDATE started in late 1996 early 1997 with a group of 9
young people from St. Michael's Church who met in
Archbishops Adler's parlor. He gathered the young people
together to teach on the Sacrament of Reconciliation.”
(“So what is Laudate all about?” by Fr. Jay)
Many feel that very little credit has been given to the men who worked hard at forming the
national movement. and shaping Laudate as it is known beyond the West Coast.
[Note] Fr. Jay's statement relayed the origins of LAUDATE as a youth group well. The
national movement, however, is only slightly referenced. His statements are not, to my
knowledge, inaccurate with respect to the LAUDATE youth group. However, the Laudate
as a National Movement took on a somewhat different air, as it's roots are deeply seated
in the Gathering Of Champions (GOC) movement, founded by Cn. Marc prior to entering
the CEC. GOC came into the CEC with Cn. Marc, and turned into the movement that
many are familiar with today. Unfortunately, after the Laudate East event in 2003, very
little activity has been seen within the movement, due to the departure of several of the
LNLT members, and much inaction on the part of the HOB.
Pertinent Links:
- Fr. Jay's post, “So what is Laudate all about?”
Http://forum.LaudateNation.net/index.php?topic=40.0
- History of GOC, from the old (2002) Laudate website.
Http://cecresearch.thruhere.net/laudate/GOC_history.pdf
-RoaringOasis
35.Some charged that there is a cover-up: There has not been an official statement
issued by the Office of Communications of The Charismatic Episcopal Church under the
direction of Archbishop Randolph Sly of Virginia. Additionally the ICCEC Cathedral has a
website with nothing about all of this on it (www.iccec.org) and even their guest book has
a question from someone from the Southeast province asking why the Patriarch has not
responded to their letter. Sly is a Member of the Patriarch's Council and knows firsthand
what happened with Bishop Zampino. He heads the Office of Communication for the
entire movement whose job is to communicate with the CEC denomination what is going
on. There has reportedly been nothing said whatsoever of this situation on Sundays at
Bishop Sly's parish in Sterling, VA, despite many questions and concerns expressed by
members of his congregation the weeks prior.

Actions taken by laity and clergy:
1. Prayer and fasting by clergy and laity from dioceses all over ICCEC.
2. Resignation of clergy and laity from dioceses all throughout ICCEC.
3. Requests for the resignation of the Patriarch from Bps. Myers and Painter. Bishop Ken
Myers and his whole diocese have asked for the resignation of Bishop Adler (copies of
his and Painter’s letters have been posted) There are reasons known only to them while
his first stated, "We believe that certain of the Patriarch’s behaviors have directly led to a
breakdown of trust in the House of Bishops and the fragmentation of the unity of the
C.E.C.". The second letter alluded to inappropriate sexual gestures toward Bishop Ken’s
wife Shirley Myers.
4. Reported requests by Bishops Hines and Lipka for the Patriarch to take a sabbatical.
5. Petition for full accounting of all allegations by clergy and laity.
6. Dialogue and debate blog hosted by David Bennett at
http://www.blogger.com/publish-comment.do?...7782048073&r=ok
7. Dialogue and debate forum hosted by David Bennett at http://forum.ancient-
future.net/index.php?...&p=4472308&st=0
8. Dialogue and debate blog hosted by David Zampino at http://papaz.blogspot.com/
9. Dialogue and debate blog hosted by Fish Campmore at
http://examiningtheiccec.blogspot.com/
10.ICCEC members have started an unofficial ICCEC yahoo list for honest discussion,
edification and commitment to the CEC.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICCECgroup)
11. Many clergy are calling for an emergency meeting of the House of Bishops IOT address
the state of the communion. Fr. Maloney replied, “The House of Bishops has a
scheduled meeting at the end of the summer.” He noted they had just recently met, and
each Bishop was given full and open opportunity to challenge and confront ALL and ANY
issue, all which have been posted on-line and discussed. Bishop Bates broke the ice and
encouraged the other Bishops to do so, but none of others did and stated all were in one
accord. Only upon returning to their respective dioceses, and whatever happened
subsequently, did they begin to raise issues.” It is reported that one bishop has requested
an emergency meeting of the HOB but is meeting strong opposition
12. Many clergy are asking the bishops to be accountable, allow for all clergy to attend the
HOB meetings and to take meeting minutes to be shared with those who didn’t attend.
13. It is supposedly reported that leaders within the CEC, there were at least three bishops
who went to the meeting of the Patriarch's Council in early June with the intention of
asking for Adler's resignation. One of these Bishops was Archbishop Sly. He went so far
as to drive to the meeting in Georgia instead of flying so that he could leave if the
meeting started to go sour. One of the three bishops who went to ask for Adler's
resignations has since formally asked for Adler to step down. The Patriarch's Council has
ignored this communication to date.
14. It is reported that during this meeting to turn the tide away from Adler and instead to
focus on the Mid-Atlantic Diocese, which Sly oversees. Some suspect that when the
meeting in Georgia turned away from the real problems within the leadership of the CEC
and began to focus on the Mid-Atlantic Diocese, both Sly and Zampino were condemned
for failing to uphold the unity of the church. How did they fail to do this? Apparently, they
were in dialogue with other denominations. This is a paradox since Adler himself
appointed both Sly and Zampino to be on his Ecumenical Council and directed them to
dialogue with other denominations. Accusations were assailed that this council was
trying to find other denominations to take in CEC parishes should the CEC fail. Some say
Sly, instead of standing up for himself and Zampino but failed to do so. Sly was then
instructed to take full responsibility for his "wrongdoing" at the meeting on the 22nd, to
apologize and, as Fr. Joel said in one of his previous postings on July 5th, do whatever
was necessary to reconcile with the clergy. (Thanks Bridgette)
15.Bishop Zampino and many of the clergy in his diocese resigned. Of the seven parishes,
two large parishes and a small mission parish have left. This includes the Cathedral
community (with six clergy, a professed community, and an order of nuns) plus four other
priests. Remaining in the ICCEC are four (three?) parishes with a total of thirteen clergy.
Bp Phil has submitted a letter of resignation explaining his reasons which was emailed to
all clergy in this Diocese. The Community, the Cathedral congregation, and two other
churches are standing with him. This represents 50% of the clergy in the diocese -- and
75% of the laity. This later repeated through another source, “Two other parishes in the
Maryland Diocese joined Bishop Zampino taking Holy Trinity Seminary, the sisterhood,
the infrastructure of the mid Atlantic and two thirds of the congregants.”
16. For the record, Bp. Zampino was not present at the Georgia meeting. However, he knew
ahead of time, that a stunt like this would probably be tried. Indeed, I called him, warning
him to "watch his back" -- that those he trusted were the ones to fear.
17. Some clergy are asking for validation of orders.
18. Clergy are asking for theological and sacramental unity from their bishops, demanding
consistent doctrine and consistent liturgical practice.
19. Clergy are angered that they have not received a notice from their Bishops at to the state
of the current affairs of the church are dependent of the internet for information. They
want answers.
20. Clergy and laity are asking,” Why have our clergy not been provided with good resources
to do their jobs, such as Catechism materials?”
21. All are beginning to demand an answer for “What do they do with the money they spend
that came from the hard working, sacrificial giving of the local parish faithful?” They are
asking for financial accountability.
22.Bishop Fick resigned but subsequently returned to be disciplined for causing division. Is
reported that, as a discipline, he is only allowed to serve as a priest- some say this return
was merely due to his owing the archdiocese building fund monies which will need to be
paid or perhaps he will forfeit his building. Most (nearly 90%) of the parishes did not
return to the CEC. It is reported that 26 out of 36 priests submitted resignations and 11
out of 13 churches disassociated themselves with the CEC. After the meeting which
prompted the "Statement to the Communion" exactly two members of the clergy returned,
one of whom was Bp. Fick. However, according to a report attributed to Adler, Bp Fick's
return was largely through his friendship with him and the ability of the two men to work
out their problems together. The Foundation Day fund was not mentioned as an issue.
Supposedly, though, Bp Fick was threatened with a lawsuit from a parishioner, who had
donated some property to the CEC in care of Bp Fick's parish, and the parishioner did not
want to see the property leave the CEC.
23. Auxillary Bishop, Bishop Miles resigned and has not returned.
24. Fr. Maloney replied, “Bishop Sly will be overseeing Maryland Dioceses and Bishop Bates
the Great Lakes diocese for now.”
25. Some bishops have taken notice that there are some serious doubts out there regarding
their ability to lead the communion.
26. Bishop Painter and his whole diocese have withdrawn form the ICCEC in response to
Adler.
27. Bishop Lipka has asked for an emergency HOB meeting two times but has been denied
and told September will be fine.
28. (07.19.06) Canon Missioner Fr. Richard Coleman from St. Michael’s CEC in
Chattanooga, Tennessee along with his clergy and church has left the Southeast Diocese
of the ICCEC.
Actions taken by Patriarch:
1. Convened the House of Bishops in February with the sole purpose of fostering communication
and reconciliation among the bishops. He allowed Bp Bates to chair the meeting, instead of
himself. Supposedly the meeting concluded with all bishops confirming their unity and dedication
to the ICCEC. (Thanks FrJoel)
2. 06.07.06 Convened an emergency meeting to reassess the situation when Bp Fick and Great
Lakes resigned. This is when reports of troubles in the Eastern Province were discussed and
acted upon. (Thanks FrJoel)
3. Telephoned and traveled to Great Lakes to reconcile with Bp Fick and his Diocese. Apparently,
he had limited success with the clergy. (Thanks FrJoel)
4. Telephoned (06.08.06) and traveled (?) to Eastern Province to discuss the situation and
reconcile Abp Sly with the remaining clergy. (Thanks FrJoel)
5. Reportedly, he has been crisscrossing the country trying to put out fires. (Thanks FrJoel)
6. David Zampino states, “The only contact Bp. Zampino had with the Patriarch was a threatening
[\QUOTE]

InOtherWords - August 17, 2006 03:48 PM (GMT)
Before It Gets Lost - Taken From old Board

QUOTE

Introduction

Sometimes this moderating job lays upon one crosses one does not wish to bear. This is one of those times.

Yesterday, I was given an interview by an individual who for this person's own protection must remain anonymous. I will not even mention this person's gender. I will say only that this person had known Adler for many years prior to the foundation of the CEC, and knows him well to this day. This individual contacted me through an intermediary -- I did not initiate the contact. This individual provided information which 1) confirmed things I already knew from other sources, and 2) was confirmed in turn by other sources. Our discussions lasted more than two hours. This individual requested specifically that I make this post. This individual is in my prayers -- and I pray, will be in yours. The remaining information in this post, unless directly noted, is taken from that interview.

ITEM: The CEC was flawed from the beginning. The original leaders, Adler, Kessler, and Moats knew this. They knew that the original "consecrations" were invalid. They were expecting a modest growth of 10 churches by 2000 -- and figured that nobody would check on the validity of the Apostolic Succession.

ITEM: The original intent was for a "Presiding Bishop" format. Moats originally wanted the job.

ITEM: When the "Ministries Today" article came out, it was an explosion. No one expected it; no one knew how to deal with it. Two "prophecies" were given: 1) that CEC growth would always outpace ability to handle it – don’t worry about structures, and 2) don’t get bogged down in paperwork – that will kill the work of the Holy Spirit. These two "prophecies" do not represent a "new" attitude, but rather the attitude from the beginning.

ITEM: The early ordinations were "Good 'ol boys". No training. The attitude was "Whose going to do what"?

ITEM: Problems with funds and with Howard dated at least back to 1995. There was some trouble with Howard as early as 1994. MODERATOR'S NOTE: I was aware of this -- I witnessed it first-hand at a HOB meeting in Tulsa, OK.

I've got to run right now . . . will post more either later tonight or tomorrow.

If someone wishes to criticize, and I'm sure that many will, please address the specific points raised. Speculation about the author and personal comments will be deleted.

Thank you.

Part Two

Item: The various issues surrounding Moats were not going to be dealt with. Indeed, great pressure had to be applied to get Adler to act, in spite of numerous, verified incidents. One leader from San Clemente told the SW Diocese that if the issue WAS forced, it would be worse for the clergy than for Moats. Adler indicated that he would rather lose the entire SW Province. Moats was finally dealt with when an untruth was spread about a conversation with another bishop -- and the other bishop in question was not even in the country at the time. Issues with Moats had been ongoing since 1995, but not dealt with for years.

Item: Issues concerning Bp. Mahon who was received into the CEC from another body. Mahon had a signed letter from Adler promising reception with full episcopal dignity. Letter was genuine -- but not actually written by Adler, but rather one of his staff. One bishop was threatened with expulsion from the CEC for supporting Mahon.

Item: Ongoing systemic substance abuse in the CEC in the USA. Adler has been repeatedly confronted, esp. with regard to Ambien use. Medication obtained in the Philippines. Blamed "broken arm" but was using prior to injury. Is supposedly clean now, after heart-to-heart with daughter nurse.

Item: Issues regarding "Brother's House" in San Clemente. Supposedly a house of training for ministry. Also a house of extreme alcohol abuse. Individual providing information has personally witnessed men drunk to the point of literal unconsiousness. So much smoking by members of "Brother's House" while in Manila (on a non-smoking hotel floor) that security had to be called for fear of fire. Men were already drinking by 5:30 AM.

Item: After Manila, many CEC bishops, without consulting each other, paid their own way to San Clemente to confront Adler. Recent SE Asia HOB meeting held in Hong Kong as Adler is persona non grata in Manila right now.

Sadly, much more.


--------------------
David Zampino

God is the Lord, of angels, and of men -- and of elves.
Legend and History have met and fused.

On Fairy Stories -- J. R. R. Tolkien


kenfollis@juno.com - August 17, 2006 04:18 PM (GMT)
June 16, 2006
An Open Letter to the People of the Diocese of the South Central of the Charismatic Episcopal Church:

Because the clergy of the Diocesan Council of the South Central Province are deeply committed to the unity of the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church, to one another, and to the discipleship of those under our care; and for the good of the church and its members, we undertake here to communicate both our understanding of the state of the C.E.C. and our intentions.

We are agreed that God is not honored by deception or by secrecy amongst the leaders of the church, and we pledge ourselves here to state clearly and without ambiguity the following facts and positions.

First, that we find common cause with our Bishop as he seeks the resignation or sabbatical of the Patriarch. We believe that certain of the Patriarch’s behaviors have directly led to a breakdown of trust in the House of Bishops and the fragmentation of the unity of the C.E.C. Since these behaviors are currently in the process of loving redemption by his brother bishops, we will not elaborate upon specific issues but rather urge our brothers and sisters to refrain from both rumor and gossip and focus instead on prayer for our Patriarch.

Second: we wish to communicate to every member of the Diocese the following articles of our unity.

Our church is in crisis. There are critical issues at the highest levels of leadership that must be addressed and resolved. We are unified in our resolve on the following truths:

• We believe that the C.E.C. will emerge with the strength necessary to carry out its mission and propagate its original vision.
• We have complete trust and confidence in our Bishop Kenneth Myers. He has demonstrated the courage and leadership to take on the arduous task of addressing these issues with the bishops and Patriarch’s Council, attempting to establish redemptive measures to heal and strengthen our communion.
• We are united in our faith and belief that the Lord is guiding our Bishop, and we stand as one with him. Our Diocese is strong and it is unified.

In any crisis the course of action taken by the leadership ultimately defines the outcome. Our choices are:

1. Accept the status quo and hope the problems resolve themselves in time;
2. Walk away;
3. Engage the issues by identifying the root causes of the problems and instituting lasting corrective action, rebuilding unity and trust.

We choose the latter. May Jesus Christ preserve his Church.

Signed by the Clergy of the Diocese of the South Central, signatures on file.


Fr. Reid NelsonWightman, Archdeacon
Deacon James Edward Lapeyre
Fr. Mark McNary
Fr. Mark Frimann
Fr. Gerald Cope
Fr. Sergio Leal
Fr. Jeff Johnston
Deacon Bob Byrne
Deacon Kenneth Dimmitt
Fr. Cliff Gobin
Fr. Charles R. Matheny
Deacon Pete Betters
Fr. Shawn Rainey
Fr. Jay Minton
Fr. Denzel Roland
Deacon Thomas Castagnaro
Fr. K. Dick Kruse
Fr. Mark Wallace
Fr. Barry Thibodeaux
Deacon Donald Hammond
Deacon Ruland Gabe Smith
Deacon James C. Toland
Fr. Ed Jarrett
Fr. Andy Taylor
Fr. Bob Tomlinson
Fr. Randy Shaum
Fr. John Harrington
Deacon Mark Cromartie
Fr. Bob Jordan
Fr. Bill Bloodgood
Fr. Bill Simpson
Deacon Gene Messina
Fr. Bill Maynor
Fr. David Senn
Deacon Bill Jennings

kenfollis@juno.com - August 17, 2006 04:19 PM (GMT)
June 19, 2006

A Letter to the Great Lakes Province regarding the meeting with bishops of the Patriarch’s Council and a response to their subsequent letter - Statement to the Communion.

Dear Brothers,

As the senior dean in the Great Lakes Province and a participant in the meeting at Church of the Holy Redeemer in Rochester Hills, Michigan on June 15, 2006, beginning at 9:00 A.M. I have been asked by those who have submitted letters of resignation to give a report of that meeting. And now to also offer a response to the letter titled “Statement to the Communion” from the Patriarch’s Council and sent out by Abp. Sly and posted on CEC Online. Judging by my own reading of the letter and the reactions from some who were there at that meeting, and because of different conclusions as to what the outcome was, it almost sounds like we attended two different meetings.

Let us begin with some data. At the time when the bulk of the Great Lakes clergy and parishes resigned from the CEC, there were 36 clergy (29 priests and 7 deacons) and 13 parishes and missions. Of those numbers, 26 priests and 7 deacons submitted letters of resignation while 11 of the 13 churches disassociated themselves from the CEC. It was no small matter. Quoting from the letter, “The resignations of a majority (but by no means all) of the clergy and parishes of the Great Lakes Diocese, while never received in writing by us, were also widely reported.” Although majority is a correct term, you can see it was almost the entire province.

We were invited to come to the meeting, albeit on short notice and without a substantive agenda. We sincerely appreciated members of the Patriarch’s Council making themselves available to what was advertised as honest dialogue, truth seeking, and prayer. Accordingly, a number of the clergy did make the trip to Holy Redeemer. Sixteen clergymen of the Great Lakes Province ( 5 canons, 12 priests, and 2 deacons) met with Archbishops Adler, Bates and Sly, and Bishop Fick. Of the 16 clergy in attendance, 12 had written letters resigning from ministry in the CEC. Of the 19 clergy who were not at the morning meeting, 17 had submitted letters as well. (I understand that 1 or 2 clergymen attended the evening session, but have no information on that.)

Since the meeting was called to be a time of honest dialogue and truth seeking, a lot of ground was covered. Unfortunately, without an agenda to follow, in depth systematic notes were not kept as the discussion went along.

The meeting opened with the Daily Office being led by Abp. Adler. Then, he and Abps. Bates and Sly made opening remarks. Abp. Bates chaired the meeting and was effective at keeping it moving and allowing people to speak.

For the most part, the dialogue was done in a respectful way. The drawback was the lack of an agenda. We spoke about the great work and fellowship in the Great Lakes Province. We also spoke about the pain and disappointment experienced over the past 3-4 years with lack of direction, lack of visible National Church or presence, and the current change of direction in the CEC. We believe the fullness of the vision of the CEC and the three streams of convergence worship have been